For occasional track use , which oil viscosity to use? Using oil data sheet for guidance

[MooMoo]

The point of thicker oil is not temperature, even if thinner might not heat up as much I bet its negligible. The point is that higher viscosity will protect more at higher temps which this car will see if you track it. I don’t think it matters unless you get into crazy temperatures with 0w20 where it basically becomes water. I did switch to 5w30 this time around because it makes sense that it should protect the engine more as temps get higher.

0w20 should run cooler cuz less viscosity, it does make sense but I also have heard the opposite.

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[johnloov]

The point of thicker oil is not temperature, even if thinner might not heat up as much I bet its negligible. The point is that higher viscosity will protect more at higher temps which this car will see if you track it. I don’t think it matters unless you get into crazy temperatures with 0w20 where it basically becomes water. I did switch to 5w30 this time around because it makes sense that it should protect the engine more as temps get higher.

0w20 should run cooler cuz less viscosity, it does make sense but I also have heard the opposite.

In terms of engine protection, I assume it would show up in the data.

That's all I followed was the data. Like the oil speed geek says.

Without data, it's all bs... I also assumed Motul 300v 5w30 was better, until I started to see people engine oil analysis. Also Blackstone confirmed they didn't see any improvement vs API SP.

I would love to see some data on a similar 5w30 running on a stock engine, that see's 80% track usage, and seeing if it's actually any better.

Please provide the data anyone on the oil engine analysis.

Let's Myth bust this

 

[Rhorn]

Sorry, didn't understand you - You are saying oil temp regardless of what goes up - do you have any data or track experience to prove that going from 0w-20 to 5w-30 doesn't increase oil temps?

We are are not seeing what you are claiming on track.

Did you just make this up with a gut feeling?

No I dont have any data. I've never heard of people recommending 0W20 for track use, every video and every person who has more experience than me unanimously suggests using a thicker oil when tracking your car. The purpose of oil is lubrication not cooling, so that should be what the ultimate consideration is imo. Im not going to be that guy who is contrarian and acts like I know.

I doubt you can conclusively show that 0W-20 decreases oil temperatures. Even if I was use it for testing there would be too many things I couldn't control for so the data wouldn't be accurate. The oil temperatures sensor in the car is calibrated for 0W20 and uses an algorithm. Even if you installed an oil temperature sensor through the oil pan, I dont think its a 1:1 reading because different sensors on different parts of the car give different readings. On cars with oil temperature guages when you install an oil cooler sometimes the reading will give a false positive because of its location.

I imagine that 0W20 is fine for the F3 cars because its basically an upscaled gokart and the engine has to deal with moving only 1,210 lbs, not +3,000 lbs. The engine doesn't have that higher load and stress so I can see why they wouldn't use or need a thicker oil, the engine isn't dealing with the same loads as us. Id be curious to what the FL5/DE5 race cars use, its probably not 0W20.

There is an older post about similar to this topic on the FK8 forums that I lurked through in the past and there wasn't a clear consensus on what was the "best. " They said that 0W20 was okay as long as it was high quality like Motul and that 5W30 was fine.

I live in Florida so its hot and humid here. So thats why I use 5W30. If I lived in an environment where it was colder, Id use high quality 0W20.

It would be nice if Honda provided a track prep owners manual like what GM does for the Corvette and Camaro to avoid these discussions

 

[MooMoo]

Only way to really know would be to use 0w20 and then 5w30 on 2 cara and run the same exact track days and then do oil analysis. This will probably never happen. Like I said I bet either is fine and will have good results. Just using reason here where these engines run very hot and more viscosity might offer more protection. 0w20 does give better gas mileage which is likely why its recommended by honda, in europe 5w30 is also in the manual so its also rec by honda.

We will never know so use what you want

 

[johnloov]

No Data = No Reality

Yes 5w-30 exact formula as the 0w-20 maybe better, but then you need an oil cooler.

And which specific 5w-30?

Those formulas work all extremely different on different engines! It's the chemistry that works with your engine, if it's aluminum, iron block, etc....

Yes 10w-60 and 20w-60 maybe even better, on built motors.

I'm only providing you guys Data, no theoretical bs....

Engine oils are extremely specific to applications. If you occasionally, or regularly even run on track, like I did, we proved the Honda OEM Ultimate 0W-20 provided incredible protection. Show me another oil with engine oil analysis that did better, and I'll believe you.

If I was running engine oil coolers, then yes 5w-30, I would run, but not Motul 300V... it's only good for one track day. I'd run 5w-30 API SP Motul Power 8100 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

People get into serious trouble with recommending engine oil, when they don't specify the exact application and engine mods and Chemistry..

From my data results, looks like Honda did formulate that engine oil perfectly. Call it water, but the data doesn't lie.

I'm done... this anti - science - anti -data reality is going no where....

 

[MooMoo]

you need to chill dude. You have not proved jack shit with the few track days and a couple of blackstone oil analasys. Stop acting like you are a pro team data scientist.

We are having a discussion here, I agree we need more data but your data is not the end all be all, its really insignificant in the grand scheme of things. There is a reason people recommend going up in oil weight, because a lot respected shops and tuners have recommended it

You are absolutely obsessed with oil and OEM, chill man, its not that serious also at the end of the day I don't think our amateur track days will really matter.

 

[Ktrw]

No Data = No Reality

Yes 5w-30 exact formula as the 0w-20 maybe better, but then you need an oil cooler.

And which specific 5w-30?

Those formulas work all extremely different on different engines! It's the chemistry that works with your engine, if it's aluminum, iron block, etc....

Yes 10w-60 and 20w-60 maybe even better, on built motors.

I'm only providing you guys Data, no theoretical bs....

Engine oils are extremely specific to applications. If you occasionally, or regularly even run on track, like I did, we proved the Honda OEM Ultimate 0W-20 provided incredible protection. Show me another oil with engine oil analysis that did better, and I'll believe you.

If I was running engine oil coolers, then yes 5w-30, I would run, but not Motul 300V... it's only good for one track day. I'd run 5w-30 API SP Motul Power 8100 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

People get into serious trouble with recommending engine oil, when they don't specify the exact application and engine mods and Chemistry..

From my data results, looks like Honda did formulate that engine oil perfectly. Call it water, but the data doesn't lie.

I'm done... this anti - science - anti -data reality is going no where....

You still appear to be pretty obsessed with challenging established knowledge on engine lubrication but you also have no real experience or merit in tribology. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and I also don't have these things either, but you're asking chatgpt questions about very basic engine oil knowledge so I feel it's a reasonable assumption to make.

Getting a UOA from Blackstone is great so you have idea about how wear is occurring in your engine, but they are not exactly the premier oil analysis lab imo, and you also need to be checking for visible metallic particles in your engine, because their testing does not detect larger particle sizes that you would be able to see with your eyes. You have not performed any real experiment or test with controls or showed any effort toward eliminating variables or testing conditions and you only conclude things based on one vehicle. Real research is tedious, expensive, difficult, and requires expertise. You cant shortcut it and conclude whatever fits your narrative and call it science.

You have not proven anything to generally make claims that Honda Ultimate 0W-20 is adequate for track use other than your specific use case and have not provided nearly enough evidence for that to be reliable. You have to consider that not everyone's engine was built the identical way yours is and everyone drives different, goes to different tracks, lives in different climates etc.

Again, great to get data on your car, but you are weaponizing a small sample size and making large claims about something you are not an expert in, which is a little ridiculous. Please use the data to inform your vehicles maintenance and share findings, but I really think you need to chill with your claims and recommendations because they are a bit irresponsible to make generally as you are seemingly doing.

 

[Rhorn]

No Data = No Reality

Yes 5w-30 exact formula as the 0w-20 maybe better, but then you need an oil cooler.

And which specific 5w-30?

Those formulas work all extremely different on different engines! It's the chemistry that works with your engine, if it's aluminum, iron block, etc....

Yes 10w-60 and 20w-60 maybe even better, on built motors.

I'm only providing you guys Data, no theoretical bs....

Engine oils are extremely specific to applications. If you occasionally, or regularly even run on track, like I did, we proved the Honda OEM Ultimate 0W-20 provided incredible protection. Show me another oil with engine oil analysis that did better, and I'll believe you.

If I was running engine oil coolers, then yes 5w-30, I would run, but not Motul 300V... it's only good for one track day. I'd run 5w-30 API SP Motul Power 8100 or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.

People get into serious trouble with recommending engine oil, when they don't specify the exact application and engine mods and Chemistry..

From my data results, looks like Honda did formulate that engine oil perfectly. Call it water, but the data doesn't lie.

I'm done... this anti - science - anti -data reality is going no where....

Not sure what data you are looking for. I already provided my oil analysis and it was fine, I followed the advice given and then I will be doing another report to see whats going on.

Having a few numbers off from a PPM on an oil report isnt really anything conducive about what oil is bad or worse. You would need to see a significant change in the numbers. This engine has been around for nearly a decade its a well built engine, and if there was any oil that truly bad or good for the engine we would know by now.

Also, your data collection is flawed. Hyper analyzing oil reports from brand new engines wont really show you anything significant, you want to obtain long term data and look at the high mileage cars to get any meaningful data. These engines are well built and wont fall apart that fast.

Oil reports alone doesn't show everything about engine health, and an engine teardown would be better to see how its holding up over time.

 

[johnloov]

The subject of this forum and question was, which oil viscosity to use and the gentleman had asked, is the stock oil good for occasional track days.

The answer is Yes, and not only Yes for occasional, this car was dedicated exclusively to run on Laguna Seca for 8 months.

With the help of my dealership, giving me free oil changes for every 1000 miles.

This experiment was to prove Honda formulated this engine oil to protect the engine extremely well and that's what the data showed on Laguna Seca where this car spent most of it's time.

It also proved, somehow, my engine oil temps went down.

That's all I can say, that's all the data I have.

That's why I'm done,

If the oil is providing excellent protection, and the engine is running cool, even on days where I brought my brother, and we ran equivalent of 2 track days in one day - and the data proves it's working extremely well on Laguna Seca - Why fck with it?

That was the advice of my friend also that ran Mclarens for 4 years on track at Laguna Seca, he said, don't fck with it, just change it more often. Don't underestimate the engine testing and hours spent by Honda formulating an oil. That's what I wanted to test.

I think we can conclude, definitively.

That Honda Ultimate 0W-20

Did an excellent job.

Right?

ps..... And if you have some other oil that did better, show us, not just one oil change, but at least 4-5 of that same oil. You can't get really any good data, by just doing 1-2 Blackstone reports.

 

[MooMoo]

You can conclude that 0w-20 is working well for your car at your driving level at that specific track with specific temperatures. Thats really all I can conclude with what I am reading but I am not an expert obviously lol. I would accept that 0w-20 runs cooler if you ran 2 identical cars back to back with similar lap times.

 

[johnloov]

You can conclude that 0w-20 is working well for your car at your driving level at that specific track with specific temperatures. Thats really all I can conclude with what I am reading but I am not an expert obviously lol. I would accept that 0w-20 runs cooler if you ran 2 identical cars back to back with similar lap times.

I'm running high 1.44's on the stock car, that's close to the fastest it would go. Maybe a pro, could do slight bit better.

 

[MooMoo]

That shows you can carry good pace at Laguna but still does not conclude anything about oil.

I think everyone here knows you can put a good lap at laguna and its great you are testing out the car and putting through its paces. Keep doing it for a few more years and then the data set will be a lot more robust (but you know this already).

 

[Rhorn]

The subject of this forum and question was, which oil viscosity to use and the gentleman had asked, is the stock oil good for occasional track days.

The answer is Yes, and not only Yes for occasional, this car was dedicated exclusively to run on Laguna Seca for 8 months.

With the help of my dealership, giving me free oil changes for every 1000 miles.

This experiment was to prove Honda formulated this engine oil to protect the engine extremely well and that's what the data showed on Laguna Seca where this car spent most of it's time.

It also proved, somehow, my engine oil temps went down.

That's all I can say, that's all the data I have.

That's why I'm done,

If the oil is providing excellent protection, and the engine is running cool, even on days where I brought my brother, and we ran equivalent of 2 track days in one day - and the data proves it's working extremely well on Laguna Seca - Why fck with it?

That was the advice of my friend also that ran Mclarens for 4 years on track at Laguna Seca, he said, don't fck with it, just change it more often. Don't underestimate the engine testing and hours spent by Honda formulating an oil. That's what I wanted to test.

I think we can conclude, definitively.

That Honda Ultimate 0W-20

Did an excellent job.

Right?

ps..... And if you have some other oil that did better, show us, not just one oil change, but at least 4-5 of that same oil. You can't get really any good data, by just doing 1-2 Blackstone reports.

Nowhere did the OP ask anything about running the stock oil. He was asking about what oil weight to run because the technical charts he was using from Amsoil was confusing and didn't know exactly what spec mattered when considering oil weight. That was long before you started ranting about the stock oil and hijacked the thread.

It was mentioned early on that ultimately what will matter more is what your oil pressure is and how frequently are you changing your oil than what oil weight you run.

I seriously doubt you ran your car through the paces for 8 months straight at Laguna. Its not even open that long. Doing only a few track days over the span of a few months doesn't equate to "dedicated exclusively to run at Laguna for 8 months." Unless you did 3 day weekends consistently for 8 months straight then whatever reports you have are a wash.

Your experiment didn't prove anything about proper oil protection or oil temperature. My oil report provided similar results, and I extended the mileage to do a 2,000 service interval with 3 track days. The car doesn't have an oil temperature sensor, its a guess and it has a margin of error. It is not 100% accurate I've had my engine temperature fluctuate rapidly through the day for each session. Doing 2 track days back to back isnt going to give you any solid meaningful data other than whatever you are doing is fine. You haven't even tested other oils so you can't say that its the best without comparing it to anything

Unless you do an engine teardown and provide long term data you wont really know if Its truly good. The censuses has been that using any high quality oil is fine, regardless of if its 0W20, 5W30, or 5W40.

Doing a few 20 minute sessions is completely different than other people who do extended sessions. I had about 6 hours of time on track last time I went out. That means there was a significant load on the engine than doing the typical 5/30 minute HPDE sessions. My local track has open track days so I can be out doing laps from 9-12 and 1-4 nonstop if I could. The only time I get off track is because I needa break or fill up on gas. I dont do one good hot lap and get off. The peak temperatures I get are sustained for ~30 minutes for multiple sessions (like 8-12 sessions) throughout the day.

Funny that you have been raging about the Honda oil, Honda doesn't own any oil refineries. They aren't the ones making the oil, they put on the specs and have a supplier produce it for them just like every other offical OEM oil. That 0W20 oil isnt specific for the CTR/K20C1 and you can call it a hunch but I wouldn't trust the same oil thats used on the base civics and the CRVs to withstand track abuse.

Amsoil explicitly states that if the engine failure is due to their oil and the warranty wont cover it, they'll step in. Thats a good enough reason for me to use it

This engine isnt new, and neither are oil reports and the engine teardowns done on it. Its been a decade, if there was a clear superior oil we'd know. There already is a ton of data from the people who tracked the FK8 extensively

 

[B16B]

Makes sense since the oil operating range is from 140F 230F with the max operating temp being 239F. The thinner weight means its getting better lubrication.

The problem is that we dont have race car levels of cooling and oil temps will easily exceed 230F so thats why a more viscous oil like 5W30 is recommended. If our oil temps could stay that low then you'd see more people recommending 0W20 probably

I'm still curious to know why they opt for Mobil 1 and not the Honda Ultimate. After reading through pages of this thread it seems like the Mobil 1 does have less additives compared to the Honda Ultimate.

 

[cryptolime]

I'm still curious to know why they opt for Mobil 1 and not the Honda Ultimate. After reading through pages of this thread it seems like the Mobil 1 does have less additives compared to the Honda Ultimate.

also wondering why they chose AFE over Extended Performance. I thought the EP was supposed to hold up better and retain viscosity longer. I don't think anyone is concerned with fuel economy on the track.

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