For occasional track use , which oil viscosity to use? Using oil data sheet for guidance

[Vito.FL5]

What about Motul 8100 Power 5w-40 - Any reason you chose x-cess instead?

8100 power is not available here

Sponsored

 

[Potato fl5]

Totally agreed, that's what the data shows.

Curious what oil are you using?

So i think I read as much as my brain can handle for one night of going down this hole. I definitely plan to track my fl5 at streets of willow in the comming months.mostly I just DD it but out here in the socal desert it does get pretty hot. I think I will def be doing my first oil change soon I'm at 3600 and I'll put 0w-20 then after I track it send it in see wut they say. After I figure out how to do that.

 

[Potato fl5]

Or rather what test to buy or is it free standard

 

[Rhorn]

Got my first report from Blackstone.

Looks like everything is good.

This is on 2 track days w/ 1,000 miles in the interval. Oil change was done at 15k miles.

Amsoil 5W-30

Really have no idea what all of the numbers means but the summary says that I should extend it out to 2,000 mile intervals and go from there.

Blackstone is pretty good but man they take forever to send the kits and get the reports back.

 

[B16B]

Ok Fellas! My latest BlackStone report is in, after 3 track days! According to Blackstone received a perfect score.

Seems like Honda Ultimate 0w-20 has minimal shearing - if any almost at ALL ! And my wear metals have mostly all flushed out and we got 8ppm for Aluminum, and it will probably hit 4-5ppm on the next oil change which about as close to the holy grail as you can get.

Conclusion - The Factory Honda OEM Oil seems to do very well with the engine. Seems like they possibly know what they are doing with the formulation.

Correct me if I'm wrong - why would I change to anything else if the data looks solid? @Ktrw

Many thanks to my Honda Dealership and the free oil changes to validate this experiment.

AI Analysis:

The report you provided appears to be an engine oil analysis from Blackstone Laboratories for a 2024 Honda Civic Type R with a 2.0L turbocharged engine. Here's a summary and insights from the report:

Key Observations:

1. Break-In Wear:
   • Aluminum, copper, and silicon levels have decreased significantly, suggesting that the engine's break-in phase is nearly complete.
   • Some wear metals are still slightly elevated on a ppm-per-mile basis, but this is expected for an engine with only three oil changes.
2. Additive and Wear Metal Levels:
   • Key wear metals (iron, copper, and lead) are present, but not at concerning levels.
   • Molybdenum and calcium levels suggest the presence of robust anti-wear and detergent additives in the Honda Ultimate Synthetic 0W-20 oil used.
3. Oil Health:
   • Total Base Number (TBN) is strong at 6.6, indicating sufficient remaining oil alkalinity to neutralize acids.
   • Insolubles, fuel dilution, and water contamination are within normal limits, showing no signs of major issues such as blow-by or coolant leaks.
4. Oil Properties:
   • Viscosity readings (SUS and cSt) are within the expected range, confirming the oil maintained its characteristics during the usage interval.
   • Flashpoint is high, indicating minimal fuel dilution.
5. Recommendation:
   • Blackstone recommends checking again in 3,000 miles to continue monitoring for further stabilization of wear patterns and oil condition.

Overall Assessment:
This report indicates that the engine is breaking in as expected, with no red flags or significant abnormalities in the oil analysis. The Honda Ultimate Synthetic 0W-20 oil performed well in terms of wear protection and maintaining its chemical properties over the oil change interval.

Expected Aluminum PPM Levels:

1. During Break-In Period (First 10,000 Miles):
   • Aluminum levels can range from 10 to 30 ppm as the engine components settle in and wear from pistons or other aluminum components stabilizes.
   • Slightly higher values are normal during this period, especially if the oil interval includes aggressive driving or track use.
2. After Break-In (Normal Driving):
   • Typical aluminum levels should drop to around 1 to 10 ppm, aligning with universal averages for modern engines.
   • Higher values could indicate issues like piston scuffing or abnormal wear.
3. Track Use or Heavy Load:
   • For engines used in demanding conditions like track days, up to 15-20 ppm may still be acceptable, depending on the oil change interval and other wear metals.
   • Consistently higher levels (above 30 ppm) may indicate insufficient film strength or thermal stability in the oil, resulting in increased wear.

What’s a Good Target for Your FL5 Type R?

• For Normal Driving: Aim for ≤10 ppm.
• For Track Use (like Laguna Seca): Keep it under 20 ppm per oil change interval.
• Concerning Levels: Values above 30 ppm may warrant further investigation into piston or cylinder wear, oil choice, or change intervals.

Are you still running the Honda Ultimate 0W20?

 

[B16B]

Yes, it’s down to 5ppm aluminum now, extremely clean… every 3 track days or 1000 miles . Actually the virgin oil sample has 2ppm aluminum so it must be 3 ppm aluminum. Super super clean

That’s good to know. I was going to originally run Amsoil, but decided to stick to the Honda 0w20 ultimate. I don’t track my car or beat on it much. I’m more of a spirited driver when the time is right, but I’m probably going to change the oil every 2000 to 2500 miles.

 

[B16B]

Interesting document I found on the k20c1 used in the F3. They only use the Mobil-1 0W20.

 

[cryptolime]

Yes, it’s down to 5ppm aluminum now, extremely clean… every 3 track days or 1000 miles . Actually the virgin oil sample has 2ppm aluminum so it must be 3 ppm aluminum. Super super clean

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/high-aluminum-content-in-oil.377846/

 

[Rhorn]

Interesting document I found on the k20c1 used in the F3. They only use the Mobil-1 0W20.

Makes sense since the oil operating range is from 140F 230F with the max operating temp being 239F. The thinner weight means its getting better lubrication.

The problem is that we dont have race car levels of cooling and oil temps will easily exceed 230F so thats why a more viscous oil like 5W30 is recommended. If our oil temps could stay that low then you'd see more people recommending 0W20 probably

 

[Rhorn]

Try using 5w-30 and watch your oil temps go up - this have been proven by my friends on track. Just get a dual oil cooler. Single oil coolers seemed not to do much according to all the other FL5 owners I met on track.

Your temperature will go up regardless of having 5W30 or 0W20. Getting a thicker oil doesn't reduce temperatures.

"Get a dual oil cooler" lol thats easier said then done. I wish it was that easy

 

[cryptolime]

Sorry, didn't understand you - You are saying oil temp regardless of what goes up - do you have any data or track experience to prove that going from 0w-20 to 5w-30 doesn't increase oil temps?

We are are not seeing what you are claiming on track.

Did you just make this up with a gut feeling?

i thought 0w-20 cools better. theoretically.

 

[MooMoo]

The point of thicker oil is not temperature, even if thinner might not heat up as much I bet its negligible. The point is that higher viscosity will protect more at higher temps which this car will see if you track it. I don’t think it matters unless you get into crazy temperatures with 0w20 where it basically becomes water. I did switch to 5w30 this time around because it makes sense that it should protect the engine more as temps get higher.

0w20 should run cooler cuz less viscosity, it does make sense but I also have heard the opposite.

 

[Rhorn]

Sorry, didn't understand you - You are saying oil temp regardless of what goes up - do you have any data or track experience to prove that going from 0w-20 to 5w-30 doesn't increase oil temps?

We are are not seeing what you are claiming on track.

Did you just make this up with a gut feeling?

No I dont have any data. I've never heard of people recommending 0W20 for track use, every video and every person who has more experience than me unanimously suggests using a thicker oil when tracking your car. The purpose of oil is lubrication not cooling, so that should be what the ultimate consideration is imo. Im not going to be that guy who is contrarian and acts like I know.

I doubt you can conclusively show that 0W-20 decreases oil temperatures. Even if I was use it for testing there would be too many things I couldn't control for so the data wouldn't be accurate. The oil temperatures sensor in the car is calibrated for 0W20 and uses an algorithm. Even if you installed an oil temperature sensor through the oil pan, I dont think its a 1:1 reading because different sensors on different parts of the car give different readings. On cars with oil temperature guages when you install an oil cooler sometimes the reading will give a false positive because of its location.

I imagine that 0W20 is fine for the F3 cars because its basically an upscaled gokart and the engine has to deal with moving only 1,210 lbs, not +3,000 lbs. The engine doesn't have that higher load and stress so I can see why they wouldn't use or need a thicker oil, the engine isn't dealing with the same loads as us. Id be curious to what the FL5/DE5 race cars use, its probably not 0W20.

There is an older post about similar to this topic on the FK8 forums that I lurked through in the past and there wasn't a clear consensus on what was the "best. " They said that 0W20 was okay as long as it was high quality like Motul and that 5W30 was fine.

I live in Florida so its hot and humid here. So thats why I use 5W30. If I lived in an environment where it was colder, Id use high quality 0W20.

It would be nice if Honda provided a track prep owners manual like what GM does for the Corvette and Camaro to avoid these discussions

 

[MooMoo]

Only way to really know would be to use 0w20 and then 5w30 on 2 cara and run the same exact track days and then do oil analysis. This will probably never happen. Like I said I bet either is fine and will have good results. Just using reason here where these engines run very hot and more viscosity might offer more protection. 0w20 does give better gas mileage which is likely why its recommended by honda, in europe 5w30 is also in the manual so its also rec by honda.

We will never know so use what you want

 

[MooMoo]

you need to chill dude. You have not proved jack shit with the few track days and a couple of blackstone oil analasys. Stop acting like you are a pro team data scientist.

We are having a discussion here, I agree we need more data but your data is not the end all be all, its really insignificant in the grand scheme of things. There is a reason people recommend going up in oil weight, because a lot respected shops and tuners have recommended it

You are absolutely obsessed with oil and OEM, chill man, its not that serious also at the end of the day I don't think our amateur track days will really matter.

Sponsored