For occasional track use , which oil viscosity to use? Using oil data sheet for guidance

[Zpeedster M]

I hope your R sales transaction is completed fastidiously so this thread can finally die a dishonorable death & all your myth buster's conspiracy theories cease

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[Rhorn]

I guess you don’t believe the data from Blackstone…. Or engine oil experts like specialist Lake Speed Junior that say always follow the data from your engine oil results, not what the marketing brochures and hearsay say. That’s just noise.

I knew engine oil discussions were like a religion, but didn’t think showing raw data would generate such a toxic reaction to data analysis. The first part of that AI data analysis was from raw data.

I think you’ve just motivated me to keep the car, and keep collecting data and showing results.

Looks like you need a few more vaccine shots.

Well I mean nothing in your wall of text contained anything useful lol. It was just points that have already been rehashed and talked about ad nauseum with just useless fulff.

The AI just pulled the majority of its "data" from the forum which is extremely limited. Nothing of value or anything new was shown.

You'd get way better data (although it will still be skewed) if you were able to get access to the whole Blackstone database for all K20C1s but I doubt they'll ever give anyone that information unless they are an OEM.

Most of the people, if not everyone who is tracking their car are using a premium oil brand so its a moot point anyways.

 

[cryptolime]

Actually I did speak to Blackstone in detail and waited for hours on 2 different calls, 2 different people while they went through the data.

They could not share the data, but they ( Once it was a guy and the second time a female ) said "look John I'm looking through many type R's right now on my screen, and we are not seeing any improvement from all the K20C1 engine oil analysis with 5w30 Motul 300V. It looks the same, no better. We're not seeing any differences."

I've also spent 2 hours at least on call with Motul, and French sales rep was convincing me after 2 - 1 hours calls - that I needed to go to 0w-20 Motul 300v - and 5w-30 built engines - of course the most expensive solution, and I could run it for 3500 miles and 2-3 track days, which is bullshit. I have the data from people running it - It degrades way faster than a API SP engine oil. Call them, find out yourself. Or look at Motul 300V oil analysis, vs API SP over 3500 miles.

If you look at the specs on that, it's thinner than the Honda Oil or even Penzzoil Ultra Platinum....

I'm just relaying fellas the truth of what I'm finding..

If I blow my engine, and the data from blackstone is all bullshit, and the marketing brochures and sales guys are the real truth.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

Look below.. That' Motul 300V 7.8mm2/s CST at 100C, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is at 8.8!

That's way thinner than the Honda oil and Pennzoil 0w-20. According to Motul, that's good for 3500 miles and 2-3 track days, and degrades faster than API SP??? You tell me - how crazy is that?

where do you find the specs of the Honda Ultimate 0w-20?

 

[Rhorn]

Actually I did speak to Blackstone in detail and waited for hours on 2 different calls, 2 different people while they went through the data.

They could not share the data, but they ( Once it was a guy and the second time a female ) said "look John I'm looking through many type R's right now on my screen, and we are not seeing any improvement from all the K20C1 engine oil analysis with 5w30 Motul 300V. It looks the same, no better. We're not seeing any differences."

I've also spent 2 hours at least on call with Motul, and French sales rep was convincing me after 2 - 1 hours calls - that I needed to go to 0w-20 Motul 300v - and 5w-30 built engines - of course the most expensive solution, and I could run it for 3500 miles and 2-3 track days, which is bullshit. I have the data from people running it - It degrades way faster than a API SP engine oil. Call them, find out yourself. Or look at Motul 300V oil analysis, vs API SP over 3500 miles.

If you look at the specs on that, it's thinner than the Honda Oil or even Penzzoil Ultra Platinum....

I'm just relaying fellas the truth of what I'm finding..

If I blow my engine, and the data from blackstone is all bullshit, and the marketing brochures and sales guys are the real truth.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

Look below.. That' Motul 300V 7.8mm2/s CST at 100C, and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is at 8.8!

That's way thinner than the Honda oil and Pennzoil 0w-20. According to Motul, that's good for 3500 miles and 2-3 track days, and degrades faster than API SP??? You tell me - how crazy is that?

So the only info they could talk about is Motul, not Amsoil or the any brands? I find that very odd. I still doubt you would see any significant improvement over using one or the other because all of them are fine, at worst youd see a marginal difference.



Im not going to start naming randon oil specs and act like I know what they mean. This goes far beyond the knowledge of me and most people here.

Amsoil has a Kinematic Rating of 8.8 as Im sure other oils do. I feel like you are just analyzing data and hyper focusing on just one outlier that is insignificant.

 

[Zpeedster M]

This is coming from a guy who claimed Honda disabled Zygrene's Type S, FL5 and Fk8 on the track because they were tracking their cars . You need to stop inhaling that Nitrogen & leave it in your tires.

I guess you don’t believe the data from Blackstone…. Or engine oil experts like specialist Lake Speed Junior that say always follow the data from your engine oil results, not what the marketing brochures and hearsay say. That’s just noise.

I knew engine oil discussions were like a religion, but didn’t think showing raw data would generate such a toxic reaction to data analysis. The first part of that AI data analysis was from raw data.

I think you’ve just motivated me to keep the car, and keep collecting data and showing results.

Looks like you need a few more vaccine shots.

 

[Rhorn]

Ok Fellas, I've finally created a new Thread for only Oil Analysis. Please post there those of you that have have personal engine oil lab results - data analysis only. No comments. Thank you

https://www.civicxi.com/forum/threads/-engine-oil-red-pill-thread-only-post-if-you-have-uoa-official-honda-civic-type-r-k20c1-engine-oil-analysis.57366/

I do respect everyone's ideas, and freedom to think. It's good to have a heated topic. But it's also good to have a separate scientific approach to testing these beliefs.

Take care,

Adios

John

Its good to have these indepth discussions so we can all learn and potentially benefit by having that bit of extra protection, which was going on before you hijacked the thread with nonsense and wild claims. I certainly learned from the discussions early on in the thread

I dont think its a heated topic. FK8/FL5 or not, nobody is having their engines blowing up on the track or street from not having Honda Ultimate 0W20 or because they are using Motul.

You are aggressively obessed with tarnishing every reputable brand and hyping up Honda Ultimate while getting defensive when getting called out for your flawed claims and methodology. You are making it a heated topic as if you are sponsored by the supplier for Honda Ultimate lol.

Its not even worth having a genuine discussion because youll begin by listing off random specs as if you are an expert, and when you get called out you just spam AI text, videos, and resorting to lame ad hominem anti science rhetoric instead of explaining your reasoning which makes it impossible to take you seriously at all.

You are ruining a great thread, and nobody here has your attitude.

 

[Tougefl5]

This thread is worse than the tariffs thread

 

[Rhorn]

You make no sense…. I only have personal data I shared with Honda oil, and we’ve looked at data on 300v given to all of us. It’s all about data, what oils are proven to work well on this engine. Which produce the most optimal results. You can clearly see power losses and friction increase by motul dyno testing. I think the issue is somehow me providing data or motul oil engine samples data, and motul itself testing the the stock engine with its oils and loosing power and saying it’s due to friction….

I understand at some point people don’t wanna believe the data because it goes against most everything you’ve heard online.. it’s a tough pill to swallow I get it. I’m not saying Honda is the best engine oil. I am saying only what the data is showing me that it protects the engine in an excellent way and I’m telling you what Motul is telling us, that you loose power and friction is increased.



if you don’t wanna believe real Dyno tests and real Blackstone tests, I don’t know what to say. that’s all I got.

if you’ve got more oil engine samples data then post it to the other thread.

Dude you are insane, and honestly have no idea what you are even talking about. You are just spouting nonsense, and at this point trolling or just being argumentative because you have an ego.

Even looking at the "data" that you are providing its clear that your God Tier Honda Ultimate isn't providing the best protection. Looking at the actual properties of the oil reports you can see that the Honda Ultimate's Kinematic Viscosity ratings are lower for both my Amsoil and the Motul 300V. The Honda Ultimate's ratings range from 6.80 - 8.04. Amsoil has a rating of 9.27, and the Motul has 9.02.

Even looking at SUS - Saybolt Viscosity values which is another viscosity rating, Amsoil and the Motul 300V are still higher and have higher expected values than the Honda 0W-20 Ultimate.

Honda Ultimate is less viscous so the oil is thinning out and will is providing less protection to the engine. Is it enough to cause engine damage? Maybe, maybe not. Only long term use and a teardown will answer, the engines are stout are not fickle, you are also on a brand new engine so its unlikely to show any signs of wear yet. Again, these engines have been out for a decade, if there was an oil that bad it would be known by now. Using a higher mileage FK8 with more wear would give better data to decimate but even then the "damage" is very unlikely to instantly cause a failure, so its just theory crafting. Regardless, why not use an oil that has been shown to give better viscosity ratings? Your data doesn't show Honda Ultimate as a clearly the best and providing the best protection.

The results shouldn't be a surprise since both are 5W30 oils, and Honda Ultimate is a 0W-20, but I guess it is. You aren't even looking at your own data and can understand it before you go on in your rants. This is why nobody takes your seriously.

I extended the service interval and did 3 track days, with 2 of them having a decent amount of time on track. So my SUS and Kinematic ratings may be lower because of the intense load, the lower numbers wont mean much other than the fact that the oil was doing its job, because those numbers were already high to begin with they will degrade with the high loads on the engine. The trick is to find the mileage interval where they are high enough to still be good and offer protection. I have no doubt 2 hard track days + 1 half track day with 2,000 street miles will give plenty of cushion. I have the data that shows the protection is there from just 1 track day, so Im not worried. As you say, "the data doesn't lie"

 

[MooMoo]

You post the motul video where they say if you track the car you should probably use a heavier oil.

we should really lock this thread, use whatever oil you want and we will use whatever oil we want. Just stop using words like "in conclusion" and doing the virtue signaling crap you keep doing.

toodles

 

[Rhorn]

You post the motul video where they say if you track the car you should probably use a heavier oil.

we should really lock this thread, use whatever oil you want and we will use whatever oil we want. Just stop using words like "in conclusion" and doing the virtue signaling crap you keep doing.

toodles

I dont think the thread should be locked. The other guy should just be banned or at least blocked here since he is just trolling.

Its an otherwise great thread Shouldn't be locked because of one troll. There is good information and it shouldn't be burried.

 

[B16B]

I called Blackstone and talked to them about the Mobil 1 0W20 and Honda Ultimate 0W20. They said majority of the oil samples they get in are with the Honda Ultimate 0W20 and Amsoil (didn't specify which weight with the Amsoil). Based on his readings, the Honda Ultimate did have more additives compared to the Mobil 1, but its not a significant difference to say one is better than the other. I plan on changing my oil every 3000 miles or so and they said running Honda Ultimate is a great choice and 0W20 shouldn't be a problem based on my driving style. I personally have ran Amsoil in all my cars including my current M5, but I'm going to stick to the Honda Ultimate 0W20 on my CTR and if the engine ever decides to blow then so be it.... I will just get a Spoon drop in crate motor and run whatever oil Spoon recommends with their engine

My engine is bone stock aside from a Spoon drop in air filter which I plan on going back to the stock air filter soon. I only have the desire to slightly modify the suspension on the CTR.

 

[Rhorn]

I called Blackstone and talked to them about the Mobil 1 0W20 and Honda Ultimate 0W20. They said majority of the oil samples they get in are with the Honda Ultimate 0W20 and Amsoil (didn't specify which weight with the Amsoil). Based on his readings, the Honda Ultimate did have more additives compared to the Mobil 1, but its not a significant difference to say one is better than the other. I plan on changing my oil every 3000 miles or so and they said running Honda Ultimate is a great choice and 0W20 shouldn't be a problem based on my driving style. I personally have ran Amsoil in all my cars including my current M5, but I'm going to stick to the Honda Ultimate 0W20 on my CTR and if the engine ever decides to blow then so be it.... I will just get a Spoon drop in crate motor and run whatever oil Spoon recommends with their engine

My engine is bone stock aside from a Spoon drop in air filter which I plan on going back to the stock air filter soon. I only have the desire to slightly modify the suspension on the CTR.

Nothing wrong with using Honda Ultimate for street use. From the reports its clear that it thins out from track abuse. This isn't surprising since its 0W20 oil, its not supposed to be thick.

You should call another UOA Lab. Blackstone doesn't test for fuel dilution and Im curious what the numbers are with the historic data. I have tomorrow off I think so I can hit them up and see.

Some people recommend the Mobil-1 ESP because the additives are alot lower. High Ca and Mg are not good long term for DI turbocharged cars because it increases blow by and carbon buildup. Just something to know but you'll be fine regardless.

 

[B16B]

Nothing wrong with using Honda Ultimate for street use. From the reports its clear that it thins out from track abuse. This isn't surprising since its 0W20 oil, its not supposed to be thick.

You should call another UOA Lab. Blackstone doesn't test for fuel dilution and Im curious what the numbers are with the historic data. I have tomorrow off I think so I can hit them up and see.

Some people recommend the Mobil-1 ESP because the additives are alot lower. High Ca and Mg are not good long term for DI turbocharged cars because it increases blow by and carbon buildup. Just something to know but you'll be fine regardless.

Interesting. I always thought having more additives is better. I still been on the fence on using M1 over the Ultimate. I asked them to check for fuel dilution on my M5 oil sample and they reported back saying the flashpoint was high which rules out fuel dilution.

 

[Rhorn]

Interesting. I always thought having more additives is better. I still been on the fence on using M1 over the Ultimate. I asked them to check for fuel dilution on my M5 oil sample and they reported back saying the flashpoint was high which rules out fuel dilution.

Its better because it extends the service interval. Dont really know about the chemistry or logic behind it yet but the consensus is that its not good really good for modern turbo GDI engines because it increases fuel dilution. It probably incresses it beyond the acceptable 2% range. GDI and turbo engines are sensitive to fuel dilution already.

Blackstone uses flashpoint to determine fuel dilution but other Labs use gas chromatography and another technique that gives you an actual number. I haven't looked into why but I imagine it could be a cost thing.

But knowing if fuel dilution is happening with your oil is good to know because fuel dilution lowers the viscosity of oil and can drop it from cSt Viscosity from 9 to something like 6 (I honestly wouldn't be suprised if thats why the cSt values dropped that low with guy who likes to track with Honda Ultimate)

It can be controversial because some people just ignore it and their engines are fine. Because its not going to cause a immediate failure. Its more of a slow long term damage and right place right time will cause a failure or something to break.

I guess its like microplastics or some other shit chemical in our food thats linked to cancer lol. People smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol, and they dont have any health problems or any respiratory diseases and theb theres people like me who never smoked a cigarette in his life that has lung disease lol.

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