I switched from GRC to FL5, here are my notes

[1970B302]

I also was on NASIOC and other OG forums (that I still visit) for many years and have owned all these cars amongst the 40+ cars I’ve had in the last 10 years. I’ve never had a type R. I always end up refusing to pay markup, and buy something else. It’s the old school Sicilian $ mentality that keeps me out of paying a dime over sticker, or really a discount. My first GRC was one of the first to land it was $500 off MSRP, it was black (no choice) got rid of it and finally got a white one for $2200 off msrp. The catch is zero package but 1800 in bs options from Toyota , not add ons by the dealer, PPF hood, side door, bumper , fabric coating and ceramic, 2 sets of mats, $800 care packs. Anyways, my black one was a loaded core all 3 packs. The stereo is noticeably worse, but I cannot find any difference in handling besides in the wet. Actually, the car without the diff is a little more playful.

call me crazy but I prefer the OG class of 04 (04-07 that is) cars to the new stuff. 2004-07 sti, 04 VW R32, 03-06 evo 8/9. They just felt special, and like I was buying more than just a car. The Corollas steering is perfectly fine for a modern sub 60k performance car. My father’s brand new S4 has Camry like steering feel in comparison. My problem with all these cars is performance.

my stock 2005 STI back in 2017 beat a FK8 type R from a 40 roll and 60 roll. Only at triple digits does the type R eventually pass during my experience….My focus RS was beat even worse by my 05 STI, and my 2016 STI I owned for near 5 years since new (sold for the RS) got demolished by my 05. The 04-06 STIs where slightly quicker straight line than the USDM evos, but would expect them to beat the same cars mine did.

Have you ever driven an FK8? I read some posts where people mentioned that car felt more compact and vicious that the new one, yet has great visibility. If the GRC starts to bother me, or I want to try something new, I may look for a virgin FK8 to DD instead. If it feels more like the cars from back in the day than the FL5 and my GRC happily try it out.

I know I probably sound wacky, but if two competent YouTubers compared a FL5, GD STI( not a 07 because of the choker emission tune ) , GRC, and a evo IX RS or MR and the old cars had the same or comparable modern tires and suspensions that weren’t out of wack I think we’d find that the old STI and evo out accelerates them, and the evo comes very close to the FK & FL5 on the right track

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[Jester04]

I also was on NASIOC and other OG forums (that I still visit) for many years and have owned all these cars amongst the 40+ cars I’ve had in the last 10 years. I’ve never had a type R. I always end up refusing to pay markup, and buy something else. It’s the old school Sicilian $ mentality that keeps me out of paying a dime over sticker, or really a discount. My first GRC was one of the first to land it was $500 off MSRP, it was black (no choice) got rid of it and finally got a white one for $2200 off msrp. The catch is zero package but 1800 in bs options from Toyota , not add ons by the dealer, PPF hood, side door, bumper , fabric coating and ceramic, 2 sets of mats, $800 care packs. Anyways, my black one was a loaded core all 3 packs. The stereo is noticeably worse, but I cannot find any difference in handling besides in the wet. Actually, the car without the diff is a little more playful.

call me crazy but I prefer the OG class of 04 (04-07 that is) cars to the new stuff. 2004-07 sti, 04 VW R32, 03-06 evo 8/9. They just felt special, and like I was buying more than just a car. The Corollas steering is perfectly fine for a modern sub 60k performance car. My father’s brand new S4 has Camry like steering feel in comparison. My problem with all these cars is performance.

my stock 2005 STI back in 2017 beat a FK8 type R from a 40 roll and 60 roll. Only at triple digits does the type R eventually pass during my experience….My focus RS was beat even worse by my 05 STI, and my 2016 STI I owned for near 5 years since new (sold for the RS) got demolished by my 05. The 04-06 STIs where slightly quicker straight line than the USDM evos, but would expect them to beat the same cars mine did.

Have you ever driven an FK8? I read some posts where people mentioned that car felt more compact and vicious that the new one, yet has great visibility. If the GRC starts to bother me, or I want to try something new, I may look for a virgin FK8 to DD instead. If it feels more like the cars from back in the day than the FL5 and my GRC happily try it out.

I know I probably sound wacky, but if two competent YouTubers compared a FL5, GD STI( not a 07 because of the choker emission tune ) , GRC, and a evo IX RS or MR and the old cars had the same or comparable modern tires and suspensions that weren’t out of wack I think we’d find that the old STI and evo out accelerates them, and the evo comes very close to the FK & FL5 on the right track

I agree with most of this, the rawness of the older cars is just on another level. Having owned a GD and VA chassis STI. I sold my GD a few years ago along with my VA, the good thing I still have access to my old GD since I sold it to a friend. So it stays pretty fresh in my mind even though now it has 608whp lol.

In a straight line acceleration from a roll, the old GD sti and Evo would get destroyed by the FK8 and FL5 stock for stock. They are lighter than the evo and subaru with more power, even trap speeds show that. I took my bone stock GD STI to the 1/4 mile and I was lucky to break 100-101mph and evos were around the same.

Now from a dig the awd advantage plays a big role on a quick acceleration test and they will keep the lead for a good while over a type R.

Now handling they are all great cars and even back then the STi and Evo’s came with even more aggressive tires but of old technology than the FK8 and FL5 ever did from the factory with the Evo being the better track car. Steering feel on the civics is numb compared to those two. But one thing I will say for the FL5 is that the steering rack ratio immediately reminded me of the evo 8-9 feeling of telepathic response while cruising on the highway. The subaru had more of a dead spot and a slower rack that was fixed in 2015.

I think they are all great cars, but at least the FL5 feels the most mature out of the bunch and we will never get cars like that ever again. So it will totally depend on what you want out of your car and if it will be your only one. A nice evo 9 will be very close to a FL5 in Price these days. The subaru’s can be had for a bit cheaper.

 

[Ultimateone]

I did the same thing. I had a fully optioned 23 core GRC. I ended up hating that car. It had tenacious grip and decent handling, but it also had some really bad handling quirks that I really didn't like. Overall, the experience was so plasticky, featureless, and didn't feel special at all. I totally disagree on the shifter; it felt plasticky, clunky, and vauge. The clutch was another story, and even worse in comparison to the CTR. I literally don't miss my GRC at all, yet I really enjoy the CTR on so many levels.

All the GRC needed was a new weighted shift knob and it was lightyears better.

 

[Ultimateone]

I also was on NASIOC and other OG forums (that I still visit) for many years and have owned all these cars amongst the 40+ cars I’ve had in the last 10 years. I’ve never had a type R. I always end up refusing to pay markup, and buy something else. It’s the old school Sicilian $ mentality that keeps me out of paying a dime over sticker, or really a discount. My first GRC was one of the first to land it was $500 off MSRP, it was black (no choice) got rid of it and finally got a white one for $2200 off msrp. The catch is zero package but 1800 in bs options from Toyota , not add ons by the dealer, PPF hood, side door, bumper , fabric coating and ceramic, 2 sets of mats, $800 care packs. Anyways, my black one was a loaded core all 3 packs. The stereo is noticeably worse, but I cannot find any difference in handling besides in the wet. Actually, the car without the diff is a little more playful.

call me crazy but I prefer the OG class of 04 (04-07 that is) cars to the new stuff. 2004-07 sti, 04 VW R32, 03-06 evo 8/9. They just felt special, and like I was buying more than just a car. The Corollas steering is perfectly fine for a modern sub 60k performance car. My father’s brand new S4 has Camry like steering feel in comparison. My problem with all these cars is performance.

my stock 2005 STI back in 2017 beat a FK8 type R from a 40 roll and 60 roll. Only at triple digits does the type R eventually pass during my experience….My focus RS was beat even worse by my 05 STI, and my 2016 STI I owned for near 5 years since new (sold for the RS) got demolished by my 05. The 04-06 STIs where slightly quicker straight line than the USDM evos, but would expect them to beat the same cars mine did.

Have you ever driven an FK8? I read some posts where people mentioned that car felt more compact and vicious that the new one, yet has great visibility. If the GRC starts to bother me, or I want to try something new, I may look for a virgin FK8 to DD instead. If it feels more like the cars from back in the day than the FL5 and my GRC happily try it out.

I know I probably sound wacky, but if two competent YouTubers compared a FL5, GD STI( not a 07 because of the choker emission tune ) , GRC, and a evo IX RS or MR and the old cars had the same or comparable modern tires and suspensions that weren’t out of wack I think we’d find that the old STI and evo out accelerates them, and the evo comes very close to the FK & FL5 on the right track

Is this Pre?

 

[fredzy]

I did the same thing. I had a fully optioned 23 core GRC. I ended up hating that car. It had tenacious grip and decent handling, but it also had some really bad handling quirks that I really didn't like. Overall, the experience was so plasticky, featureless, and didn't feel special at all. I totally disagree on the shifter; it felt plasticky, clunky, and vauge. The clutch was another story, and even worse in comparison to the CTR. I literally don't miss my GRC at all, yet I really enjoy the CTR on so many levels.

You need to stop holding back and tell us how you really feel

I also was on NASIOC and other OG forums (that I still visit) for many years and have owned all these cars amongst the 40+ cars I’ve had in the last 10 years. I’ve never had a type R. I always end up refusing to pay markup, and buy something else. It’s the old school Sicilian $ mentality that keeps me out of paying a dime over sticker, or really a discount. My first GRC was one of the first to land it was $500 off MSRP, it was black (no choice) got rid of it and finally got a white one for $2200 off msrp. The catch is zero package but 1800 in bs options from Toyota , not add ons by the dealer, PPF hood, side door, bumper , fabric coating and ceramic, 2 sets of mats, $800 care packs. Anyways, my black one was a loaded core all 3 packs. The stereo is noticeably worse, but I cannot find any difference in handling besides in the wet. Actually, the car without the diff is a little more playful.

call me crazy but I prefer the OG class of 04 (04-07 that is) cars to the new stuff. 2004-07 sti, 04 VW R32, 03-06 evo 8/9. They just felt special, and like I was buying more than just a car. The Corollas steering is perfectly fine for a modern sub 60k performance car. My father’s brand new S4 has Camry like steering feel in comparison. My problem with all these cars is performance.

my stock 2005 STI back in 2017 beat a FK8 type R from a 40 roll and 60 roll. Only at triple digits does the type R eventually pass during my experience….My focus RS was beat even worse by my 05 STI, and my 2016 STI I owned for near 5 years since new (sold for the RS) got demolished by my 05. The 04-06 STIs where slightly quicker straight line than the USDM evos, but would expect them to beat the same cars mine did.

Have you ever driven an FK8? I read some posts where people mentioned that car felt more compact and vicious that the new one, yet has great visibility. If the GRC starts to bother me, or I want to try something new, I may look for a virgin FK8 to DD instead. If it feels more like the cars from back in the day than the FL5 and my GRC happily try it out.

I know I probably sound wacky, but if two competent YouTubers compared a FL5, GD STI( not a 07 because of the choker emission tune ) , GRC, and a evo IX RS or MR and the old cars had the same or comparable modern tires and suspensions that weren’t out of wack I think we’d find that the old STI and evo out accelerates them, and the evo comes very close to the FK & FL5 on the right track

Wait, you went from a Core with the LSDs to one without the LSDs? And you didn't die? You need to post a writeup in the GRC forums about that. They might start a gofundme to get you psychiatric care

I had a non-PP core. I let the talk about the LSDs get to me a little. Basically it drove me to learn exactly how a Torsen works so I could understand the dynamic effects they would have, figure for myself what I was missing out on. Takeaway: not much. For an AWD car with tons of grip, you really need to be pushing hard + fairly sharp curve for the LSDs to lock up and do their thing. Else, they actually contribute to understeer. I don't even think they would buy you anything on a typical track, especially if you put stickier tires on the car with stock power.

I agree there was a specialness to those cars in the class of 05. Too bad I was a poor college kid and couldn't hope to afford one at the time!

Is this Pre?

No, he is the anti-Pre. I can point out several reasons but the big one is Pre would never have traded down from a GRC with the diffs to one without. Just learning that this ever happened might kill the man.

 

[1970B302]

I remember PRE from IWSTI if my memory serves me correctly.

I traded down for a white one and haven’t regretted it at all. The JBL sound system in the loaded core wasn’t all that great, I never use heated steering wheel or seats, so I just didn’t care all that much. I knew for my cars purpose DD in 95% of situations the diff pack wouldn’t make any difference in feel. I will say the Corolla interior (aside from the seats shifter and steering wheel) feels cheap as hell. The dashboard is ugly, the doors are hard plastic, and the cheap piano black trim around the shifter is lame. I never thought the 04-07 STIs, after the 05 refresh, had a “cheap” interior. I thought the blue carpets , steering wheel, shifter with that aluminum surround really did a nice job of making it feel special. Back then a E46 M3 didn’t have a interior that felt super high quality in comparison, and with the NAV screen was just ugly to look at

 

[1970B302]

Also my GRCs door handles might be the cheapest I’ve had in any car outside of my old GTI & Scirocco 16V which are too old to even complain about

 

[Cornercarver]

Thank you for the detailed writeup. I have wondered if the GRC would be a good alternative.
Well worth reading.

Regarding your review, thinking I am good with the CTR. No snow here, and don't want to give up storage or room.

 

[SteveR]

I was leaning towards a GR Corolla, this is as a second car when I have been using multiple motorcycles to get my fun and also get around as my wife has first dibs on our car.

We had a previous second car that was a Hyundai i30 Fastback N. Loved it.

I drove a VB WRX and liked it. My son was with me and he is a real Subby guy has had six of them and two currently.

I liked the GR Corolla, got to sit in one, not drive it.

But, the Civic Type R just ate away at me, to start with the exterior and interior looks so much better. Shit loads better.

Plus I like FWD, my first performance car when I was young was a BMC Mini Cooper MK2. Not that BMW Bullshit. A go-cart.

So, I await delivery of a Sonic Grey CTR. I don't need AWD if I stay off the dirt, there is no snow where I live.

 

[VarmintCong]

call me crazy but I prefer the OG class of 04 (04-07 that is) cars to the new stuff. 2004-07 sti, 04 VW R32, 03-06 evo 8/9. They just felt special, and like I was buying more than just a car.

That was the golden era of performance cars. BMWs from that age were awesome too, even the non-M cars.

 

[fredzy]

But, the Civic Type R just ate away at me, to start with the exterior and interior looks so much better. Shit loads better.

I knew any time I saw an FL5 in the wild it was going to kill me.

 

[1970B302]

That was the golden era of performance cars. BMWs from that age were awesome too, even the non-M cars.

Yup it really was. I still have my GRC. Some things are starting to annoy me a little bit. The clutch is for sure one of the softest I have ever had on a performance car. The things paint is very poor - almost Subaru quality levels. I don't tailgate and have rock chips forming already. The sound system is terrible. I mean really bad. I am convinced the JBL and Base system are the same.

The handling at times feels almost artificially heavy in sport mode. I miss the old school hydraulic racks - That is one thing my VA STI had going for it over this and the RS I had. Also weirdly enough , the car feels like it makes 20 more HP with all traction off in sport mode.

I have noticed funny enough many dealers have CTRs sitting in showrooms near me atm. I don't know if it would be worth the switch or not, I almost would feel bad to DD the CTR. & The lack of a handbrake might send me to a mental hospital. It is on my bucket list for sure

 

[eculley]

Your post resonates with me quite a bit. Recently sold my '23 Circuit to buy a '24 CTR and it is almost the exact same story as yours. Really wanted an FL5 when they were first announced but like most people, I couldn't find one that wasn't marked up to oblivion. The GRC was never a car that called to me, but test drove one on a whim and bought it.

When I test drove the GRC, it immediately made me think of my '19 STI and that sold me. The torque lag and 4k power surge was almost identical. After living with it though, I became increasingly frustrated with the ergonomics and interior quality. You sit way too damn high in the GRC and the dash stretches too far toward you. An incredible amount of interior rattles and anytime I would go over a bump, the entire interior felt like it was crashing into itself. It just didn't feel buttoned up. Finally, the low-speed drivetrain experience was annoying. It was suuuper buzzy and unrefined. With that being said, when you're moving, it was fun. Super tossable and grip for days.

The GRC is a lot of fun, but for the same reasons you shared (and the above), I am much happier in the CTR.

 

[fredzy]

Right on man. I was so content with the car I had from 2014-2021. 7-8 years without hardly thinking about cars. I prob said in my OP but I knew when I saw the first shots of the FL5 mule in 2020 that I was going to have to have it. Once the cars with the Type R camo started popping up everywhere, and especially after checking out the regular civic (which is pretty much ) my heart couldn’t quite rest til I had it lol

 

[1970B302]

Your post resonates with me quite a bit. Recently sold my '23 Circuit to buy a '24 CTR and it is almost the exact same story as yours. Really wanted an FL5 when they were first announced but like most people, I couldn't find one that wasn't marked up to oblivion. The GRC was never a car that called to me, but test drove one on a whim and bought it.

When I test drove the GRC, it immediately made me think of my '19 STI and that sold me. The torque lag and 4k power surge was almost identical. After living with it though, I became increasingly frustrated with the ergonomics and interior quality. You sit way too damn high in the GRC and the dash stretches too far toward you. An incredible amount of interior rattles and anytime I would go over a bump, the entire interior felt like it was crashing into itself. It just didn't feel buttoned up. Finally, the low-speed drivetrain experience was annoying. It was suuuper buzzy and unrefined. With that being said, when you're moving, it was fun. Super tossable and grip for days.

The GRC is a lot of fun, but for the same reasons you shared (and the above), I am much happier in the CTR.

Are both cars DD for you? How is the sound system/interior quality in comparison. Is the engine as good/fun to rev through the power range/get into full boost. I have heard that the sound becomes pretty annoying they pump into the interior, I don't spend alot of time on this forum but I am guessing someone has come up with a way to delete that? Any annoyances?

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