FL5 Type R vs DE5 Integra Type S | Savagegeese

[NoelPR]

They are both great cars and are on an identical powertrain. I bought the R but was well aware the ITS was coming. I made my decision on getting the R because I don't need it as a daily forever and want a car that I can tune and take to the track when the daily phase comes to an end. That was why I didn't get the ITS. It is more of a daily car that will likely lose value at a faster rate than the R. I think for the buyer that is more exclusive to a daily and wants a car that they will drive it and then move on to something else then its a better choice. I have been a long time lurker but just became legit today. I appreciated Savagegeese and his hard work and his presence on this forum. It is nice to have that feedback from an owner himself and it is a benefit to all of us for the comparison.

Or the ITS will force Honda Dealers to cut down markups causing a cascading effect on their resale value too.

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[NoelPR]

Honda recommends 91 for the US FL5.

Yes that is your advertised difference.

Noticed that too. That might justify the more "aggressive tune".
Another interesting note, Sarah n Tuned mentioned in her video that the CTR reaches around 2 more PSI of boost compared to the ITS. Don't know how true this is.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Noticed that too. That might justify the more "aggressive tune".
Another interesting note, Sarah n Tuned mentioned in her video that the CTR reaches around 2 more PSI of boost compared to the ITS. Don't know how true this is.

This has been covered before (see below). The ITS makes more power on less boost. The tune is running more ignition timing and a leaner AFR.

 

[UFO CTR]

This has been covered before (see below). The ITS makes more power on less boost. The tune is running more ignition timing and a leaner AFR.

basically an "aftermarket" tune?

 

[Clark_Kent]

basically an "aftermarket" tune?

I suppose that's one way to look at it. A very mild one. Once tuned I presume they are equal.

 

[Gansan]

Leaning out the AFR tends to make the engine run hotter. I will be interested to see if there is a difference in overheating on track. I wonder if the ITS, since it's primarily meant to be a street car, was deemed to not need as much of a cooling margin.

 

[SKINNIE]

Or the ITS will force Honda Dealers to cut down markups causing a cascading effect on their resale value too.

I've been seeing lots of ITS's going for MSRP in the last couple of weeks.

 

[KidIcarus]

Tin foil hats on, but I wonder if there has been more of a marketing/distribution initiative to push the ITS in North America, OVER the FL5 because they're built in the states and therefore benefits the U.S. economy moreso.

 

[Gansan]

Tin foil hats on, but I wonder if there has been more of a marketing/distribution initiative to push the ITS in North America, OVER the FL5 because they're built in the states and therefore benefits the U.S. economy moreso.

I think it's possible that they want to give their U.S. factory more to do because it's good for business rather than a nebulous "good for the nation" kind of thing. The Integra probably has a higher profit margin that goes directly to Honda rather than a dealership marking things up, and it's a bonus to give the Ohio plant more work to do I'm sure.

 

[mbaapk]

So what does the Phearable tune do differently, ie afr, timing etc that allows it to squeeze 50-60 extra hp / tq over both of the stock its and type r maps?

 

[Clark_Kent]

So what does the Phearable tune do differently, ie afr, timing etc that allows it to squeeze 50-60 extra hp / tq over both of the stock its and type r maps?

It's about 91whp/66wtq on 93 octane on the FL5 they performed the tune/testing on. On paper it's a stunning number (delta) on an otherwise stock vehicle. I suggest tabling the DE5 as it's not in scope for the tune in question. What they do differently is a question for Phearable. I suspect the response will be something along the lines of "custom tuning of fuel, ignition, VTC, boost, and throttle mapping". Doubtful you will get granular details because intellectual property.

 

[Jester04]

I want to preface this by saying I will be able to post the lap times next week however I can give you a brief run down and answer any questions after driving both cars back to back, street and track.

The video released today focusing on the ITS but many comparisons were made with CTR.


Lap Video (Different Days, 82F vs 76F)
Autobahn South
FL5 CTR Stock +R VSA Off(Bridgestone Potenza Sport OEM Pressures)
DE5 ITS Stock Sport+ Pedal Dance VSA Off (OEM Tires and Pressures)
CTR Driver - Britt Casey Jr. IMSA TCR National Champion (FWD Class)
ITS Driver - Mark SavageGeese (Drove a HotDog Cart into a Wall)


Type S Pros

1. Interior 5db less noise in front cabin
2. Slightly Better Audio System at higher frequencies
3. Better Suspension Calibration for 95% if surfaces
4. More features
5. Better Paint Options
6. Made in Ye Olde USA
7. May fool people into thinking you have more money because Acura badge
8. More TQ = Less effort in higher gears at low RPM
9. More HP = Pulls on CTR in all straight lines until about 95MPH
10. Exhaust Tuning is fuller

Type S Cons

1. More Expensive
2. Some Piano Black
3. Seats are far worse than CTR
4. Gauge Cluster software is worse, and no LOG-R
5. Front Suspension tuning feels softer at the limit with more understeer, less rotation than CTR.
6. Cant turn off VSA (Unless Pedal Dance)
7. Not Made in Japan
8. More TQ means more understeer under throttle at low RPM, far easier to run the front tires off
9. Less open area on front bumper for cooling
10. Aero Balance?
11. Dimmer Switch Not Physical

Anything Else you would like to know?

Its good to see you here dude back from the FT86 forums lol.

 

[mbaapk]

It's about 91whp/66wtq on 93 octane on the FL5 they performed the tune/testing on. On paper it's a stunning number (delta) on an otherwise stock vehicle. I suggest tabling the DE5 as it's not in scope for the tune in question. What they do differently is a question for Phearable. I suspect the response will be something along the lines of "custom tuning of fuel, ignition, VTC, boost, and throttle mapping". Doubtful you will get granular details because intellectual property.

Are emissions and warranty the primary reasons why they dont come with a more aggressive tune stock? Kind of wasted potential.

 

[CTRifecta]

I wonder if the ITS was tuned more aggressively due to the quality of the gas (91/93) available in US/Canada vs other Markets that the CTR is sold in?

 

[Andromedas]

I think it's possible that they want to give their U.S. factory more to do because it's good for business rather than a nebulous "good for the nation" kind of thing. The Integra probably has a higher profit margin that goes directly to Honda rather than a dealership marking things up, and it's a bonus to give the Ohio plant more work to do I'm sure.

I remember Matt Farah mentioning that the Acura rep he was talking to said they want to make enough that anyone who wants an ITS will get one in an episode of TheSmokingTire podcast.

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