Cross-Shopping FL5?

[zumbooruk]

Your only real options are a used M3 or CT4-V Blackwing. The Blackwing will probably have to be used to fit within the $70k price point. Brand new, well-optioned CT4 BWs can rise up to near six-figures. CT5 BWs are very cool but way out of the budget you're throwing out. The only other downside from cost is they are very large and heavy cars (the CT4 is also quite heavy)- which is a pretty stark contrast from the FL5's philosophy of being astonishingly lightweight for a modern car.

An F80 M3 is a fantastic car. If you can find a clean, low-mileage option, that would be my recommendation. It's not going to have the finer inputs of the FL5 (e.g., shifter, steering), and it's an out-of-warranty BMW- but it's a higher tier car, for far less than you'd spend on a new Blackwing, and possibly less than you'd spend on an FL5 (but doubtful if you want a good one). The F8x generation of BMWs are truly "built different" and you won't find the litany of catastrophically expensive maintenance issues that plagued the older generations. The power will blow your fucking mind vs what you're used to with an older Honda.

You could conceivably find a used G80 M3 for ~$70k. I've never driven one but I'm tempted to go find out what it's like. The aesthetics have grown on me by a large margin since it was first introduced, and as far as I can tell it grants supercar-levels of performance in a very well put-together luxury package. The weight conversation will of course be relevant but I think categorically the G80 is just in a different class of car vs the FL5.

Another possible option is an Integra Type S. I realize there are a variety of philosophies on this board in particular that effectively shun the DE5, but if it's just the principal of not paying over MSRP to a southern California dealership, then you may be more likely to find a DE5 without a markup. If you're not philosophically opposed to it already.

Or just do what many, many others have done, and just buy it out of state.

Thanks,

I did not look at the weight for the CT4-V Blackwing... it is indeed nearly 700lb more than the CTR...

The 4BW is 8" longer than the CTR, yet rear leg room is 4" less, and trunk volume is less than half

so from practical standpoint, the CTR will be a much more practical car (and better gas milage)

as mentioned above never cared for BMW, did a quick compare of the M3 to the 4BW, seems that for my "requirements" above, the 4BW might be better, and it is cheaper than new M3, as is $70k is a bit of a stretch.

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[zumbooruk]

Used tesla plaid and just pretend to shift lol

I always said that I'll never be caught in an automatic unless it is my hearse...

Manual is a must. which is why I am looking to get a new car now, before manual transmissions become extinct.

 

[zumbooruk]

I don't view this as a real problem. You don't have to pay over MSRP, you're choosing to pay over MSRP. Increasing the budget and looking to other cars to avoid paying a markup you don't have to pay doesn't make sense to me. MSRP deals are abundant across the country. Zimbrick Honda in Madison, WI has an SGP at MSRP. That's one of many many examples. You buy the car and you ship it to California and you'll have it in your garage in less than a week. Buy the car you truly want, which seems to be the FL5, instead of increasing your budget up to $25K to buy something you kind of want or may be open to. Your "hard" requirements describe the FL5, so just buy it. This is both simple and easy.

Agree, but... as I said earlier, I can afford more than CTR at MSRP+10K, but might as well put the $10K into a "better" (if any) car.

CTR is more practical, more reliable, yet the 4BW is RWD, more powerful. faster, luxurious

I might just toss a coin between the CTR and the 4BW (and toss it as many times as necessary for it to come up with the right choice...)

 

[Clark_Kent]

Agree, but... as I said earlier, I can afford more than CTR at MSRP+10K, but might as well put the $10K into a "better" (if any) car.

CTR is more practical, more reliable, yet the 4BW is RWD, more powerful. faster, luxurious

I might just toss a coin between the CTR and the 4BW (and toss it as many times as necessary for it to come up with the right choice...)

Noted. Have you driven all of the cars in the consideration set?

 

[zumbooruk]

Noted. Have you driven all of the cars in the consideration set?

no... and that's a huge problem

no Honda dealer will let me test drive a CTR, as they all want to keep milage to a minimum

4BW is not even available at dealerships nearby, only one is being delivered to a dealership nearby, but it was a special order, and they will not let me test drive it.

the best I can hope for is to sit in the cars...

not good enough but that might be all that I'll get to do :-(

 

[Clark_Kent]

no... and that's a huge problem

no Honda dealer will let me test drive a CTR, as they all want to keep milage to a minimum

4BW is not even available at dealerships nearby, only one is being delivered to a dealership nearby, but it was a special order, and they will not let me test drive it.

the best I can hope for is to sit in the cars...

not good enough but that might be all that I'll get to do :-(

Your best bet is to find pre-owned models. Most dealerships are fine with folks driving them. If you can find them at a dealership of another manufacturer, even better.

 

[Bigfx]

Had a ct4v blackwing for over a year, great car period. Substantially better than the CTR in every way from the magnetic ride to the power the LF4 makes it’s a great car. I think nostalgia brought me to the CTR and tbh it’s a very special car it’s on own right if you aren’t chasing 0-60 and raw speed. You will notice the weight difference as the CTR is more playful and can be swung around but the power in the blackwing is substantial, not as quick as the bmw s58 which is a monster power wise. The transmission (manual) is also way better than the CTR the tremec is ridiculous you can flat foot shift from the factory and just bang the gears and there is zero if any resistance and no 2nd gear grind. Then rear wheel drive!!! Tbh I moved on from the platform bc I’m an avid car hopper lol and wanted to try the new bronco!!! Now that I have had my CTR for a year almost may move back to the BW or an M2 but there is something very special and practical about the CTR and it’s the reliability of a Honda product and the fun factor of the car. It’s funny but somehow the CTR just gets the driving experience despite the lack of power and FWD.

 

[zumbooruk]

Your best bet is to find pre-owned models. Most dealerships are fine with folks driving them. If you can find them at a dealership of another manufacturer, even better.

Thanks,

I did a quick search, the only pre-owned 4BW I found was CarMax in Florida, and CarMax wants $2000 to deliver it to California for a test drive.

I have not looked for used CTR, somehow did not occur to me...

so thanks again!

 

[jtlctr]

I was in this position about a year ago, looking for the next “perfect” car for my use case. I had basically the same requirements as you do, minus the number of doors. The 3 choices I had narrowed it down to were the FL5, M2, and CT4-V Blackwing. I drove 3 different M2s, one being a competition. Awesome car without a doubt, the comp was a monster! But I hated the clutch and shifter feel. Plus, there’s something I just don’t like about BMW interiors, I can’t say exactly what, just didn’t feel right for me. Plus, I didn’t care for the numb steering feel.

The Cadillac was a car I was very interested in, based on all the glowing reviews, but I just couldn’t part with that amount of money. Plus I have read some horror stories about parts availability with such a low production car. I did get a brief test drive in a Blackwing after test driving the FL5 and it was an awesome car. Way more power of course, but I thought the Civic was much more nimble, and the shifter, clutch, and steering feel is way more to my liking in the FL5. Also, I value reliability quite a bit, and I’ve never been let down by a Honda product.

ultimately, we all have different experiences with these cars, so test drive anything you’re considering as much as possible and go from there.

 

[zumbooruk]

Had a ct4v blackwing for over a year, great car period. Substantially better than the CTR in every way from the magnetic ride to the power the LF4 makes it’s a great car. I think nostalgia brought me to the CTR and tbh it’s a very special car it’s on own right if you aren’t chasing 0-60 and raw speed. You will notice the weight difference as the CTR is more playful and can be swung around but the power in the blackwing is substantial, not as quick as the bmw s58 which is a monster power wise. The transmission (manual) is also way better than the CTR the tremec is ridiculous you can flat foot shift from the factory and just bang the gears and there is zero if any resistance and no 2nd gear grind. Then rear wheel drive!!! Tbh I moved on from the platform bc I’m an avid car hopper lol and wanted to try the new bronco!!! Now that I have had my CTR for a year almost may move back to the BW or an M2 but there is something very special and practical about the CTR and it’s the reliability of a Honda product and the fun factor of the car. It’s funny but somehow the CTR just gets the driving experience despite the lack of power and FWD.

Thanks,

That is exactly my current conclusion, based on reading/researching, as I have not yet test driven either one (see above)

I never thought that I'd like to drive a FWD. till I got my FA5, all the cars I've driven were RWD

including my wife's Nissan 240SX, no power, but perfectly balanced car, I was able to do four wheel drifts with it... first time caught me by surprise and scared the crap out of me, subsequent times I did it on purpose


so if anything, nostalgia will bring me back to the 4BW and RWD...

 

[Tougefl5]

60 and want to drive till you can't? Go finance a Porsche gt2 rs for 144 months and refinance it 6 months later for additional 72 months. By the time they catch on you will probably be dead. So it won't matter much YOLO............

 

[Rhorn]

What's a FA5?

Anyways go for the CTR. The Blackwings are just luxury sedans. They are far more numb due to it weighing nearly 4,000 lbs. The CTR shines because it gives you that boy racer satisfaction while still giving you the practicality to use it as a daily driver. The Type R does the best at driving regardless of the commute because of its nimblenss and it has all of its driver inputs sorted out.

I have a GT350 and it just collects dust ever since I got my CTR. I started tracking it and I love it more. Imo its a must have for any 2 car garage.



.

 

[jtlctr]

Another thing I will add after driving the CTR for 10k miles is that when you want to chill out, this car is so comfortable to drive in all conditions. Ok, the road noise is a little annoying and the suspension is stiff, but I don’t find it uncomfortable in those regards. There were a couple of times last summer that I was in stop and go traffic for a while and never once did I wish I had an automatic. I just kept thinking “damn, this clutch is so easy and predictable” and “this seat is like a racing BarcaLounger”.

 

[ITSguy]

What's a FA5?

Anyways go for the CTR. The Blackwings are just luxury sedans. They are far more numb due to it weighing nearly 4,000 lbs. The CTR shines because it gives you that boy racer satisfaction while still giving you the practicality to use it as a daily driver. The Type R does the best at driving regardless of the commute because of its nimblenss and it has all of its driver inputs sorted out.

I have a GT350 and it just collects dust ever since I got my CTR. I started tracking it and I love it more. Imo its a must have for any 2 car garage.



.

You’re just scared of the voodoo grenade…. Jk jk ex 350 owner here

 

[menikmati]

The Blackwings are just luxury sedans.

I'm going to have to disagree, they are very capable cars.

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