991.1 carrera 4s. Keep FL5?

[MrB]

Let's start to drift back towards reality a bit. The FL5 is a GREAT car. But it is not a Porsche. Am I correct in assuming you haven't driven one?

Whilst most of your post was quite good chat, I respectfully have to point out the first paragraph wasn't.

Like you, I also prefer the 997 but I would need the isofix points on a 991 for my son's seat (and even then it's going to be a squeeze!) - in the UK at least there were only very few later 997s which had isofix.

On track, in my opinion the FL5 is more rewarding than a 991 Carrera (2/4/s). The balance shifts if you start going up the 911 ladder of course.

I've actually been looking at the 991.1 GTS, but the price is too much of a leap for me at the moment.

I think we can all agree this discussion shows at the very least that the FL5 is an amazing car and punches well above it's weight.

(And your assumptions not correct, but happy to move on!)

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[TchnoZ33]

Whilst most of your post was quite good chat, I respectfully have to point out the first paragraph wasn't.

Like you, I also prefer the 997 but I would need the isofix points on a 991 for my son's seat (and even then it's going to be a squeeze!) - in the UK at least there were only very few later 997s which had isofix.

On track, in my opinion the FL5 is more rewarding than a 991 Carrera (2/4/s). The balance shifts if you start going up the 911 ladder of course.

I've actually been looking at the 991.1 GTS, but the price is too much of a leap for me at the moment.

I think we can all agree this discussion shows at the very least that the FL5 is an amazing car and punches well above it's weight.

(And your assumptions not correct, but happy to move on!)

His assumption that I had not driven one was correct lol.

 

[Gizmo]

Love this forum right now. Just FYI. Really quite realistic and appropriate advice and knowledge. Maybe I’ll hold off until I figure out what the heck I want. Originally I was going to sell the type R but honestly I feel really sad doing it. If I am going to keep it, maybe a cayman might be the more appropriate choice. First world problems and decisions. I really appreciate all the love!

take your time, make sure everything is in order and just figure it out. On the bright side, your car is going to be worth exactly the same as it is now in 3 years. Probably even longer.

 

[egxflash]

I loved the response! I mean I can afford to keep both but didn’t want to give up that much liquid. I’ll probably just finance more and keep the type R tbh. If I sold the type R, I’d be losing 12k in about just 12 months.

The car I’m looking at is still under CPO until 10/2025 which I’m probably going to extend. Has been kept in great condition. And I have two kids that can both fit in the back…primarily why I wanted a 4 seater. Sad to hear about the manual though lol.

Do it. This is what I intend to do later on - get into a CPO carrera once the kids are both front facing.

 

[m3bs]

I think it comes down to what you want to do with the car. I have a 981 GT4 that is almost exclusively a track car, a task it is very good at. I find it frustrating to drive on the street, as it really needs more running room than my nearby roads offer. For a quick trip to Walmart or the Post Office, the CTR is a better tool for the job. I don’t expect to match lap times at VIR in my CTR, but at Roebling Road it absolutely can. In fact, I bought my CTR from a friend who was able to outrun me in my GT4 if I wasn’t on fresh tires. I’m not sure which one will get more attention at C&C, if that’s your thing.

 

[optronix]

I don’t know much about Porsche resale value

The only Porsches that are depreciating are the SUVs, or some people probably got in way over their heads with ADMs in the Covid years. I won't argue with the FL5 being a pretty solid bet to not lose much money on depreciation, but virtually any Porsche sports car is right up there with it. Some actually could be considered investment pieces... but no one is getting rich off selling their 10 year old Porsche (we'll disregard the "special cars" like the 911R, Spyder RS, etc. for sake of argument).

30+ years though... debatable. 993s are going for obscene prices right now. FL5 has its own unique value prop for this "investment" conversation with it being the only Civic Type R besides the FK8 to be brought to the USDM market, the fact it's just so damn good, etc.... but again, it's far too easy for people to forget that at its core, it's still a Civic. We on this forum appreciate that- but the general population probably doesn't. That's not the case for a Porsche, that point shouldn't really be hard to recognize.

His assumption that I had not driven one was correct lol.

No, I was trolling a bit and for that I apologize. Despite my age I still revert to my dickhead self occasionally. Especially with all the division going on right now, I'm trying to adopt a philosophy of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all (or post a meme...)", but sometimes I forget the plot. My bad.

I've just seen too many times on this board and others, people get ahead of themselves and get carried away with the "specialness" of the FL5. I've argued both sides of that point, but end of the day I and many others who've owned and driven both cars in many different circumstances tend to recognize that the Porsche is objectively the superior enthusiast car. The FL5 has its advantages... but I can't really imagine a scenario where I have a great back road or a track day that having the option of either car, I wouldn't take the Porsche. Even a 991.1, which could be argued is more of a "momentum car" than the brutal torque curve of the FL5. I guess that's probably the only advantage I could see someone giving the FL5- the K20C just feels great at basically any rev range, and the N/A flat 6s in the 981/991 gen and earlier may not "feel" as fast until you're up above ~4000rpm or so. But that's where the conversation ends lol. That's a very happy place to be.

The 991.2 is phenomenal. The turbo power makes it a baby supercar with all the pleasurable inputs you could ever want (especially with rear-wheel steering). Doesn't sound quite as good as the 991.1 though.

In any case, any FL5 enthusiast or owner should be pleased that it's in these types of conversations. It is a Civic after all- but yes, in the hands of a good driver vs a novice, it will easily outpace a Porsche. And it's also right up there in the fun-to-drive factor as well. But I can't imagine too many folks who've owned Porsches to concede an FL5 as being more "special" to drive in virtually any scenario. That's my opinion, and others may disagree. And that's fine.

 

[optronix]

Whilst most of your post was quite good chat, I respectfully have to point out the first paragraph wasn't.

Like you, I also prefer the 997 but I would need the isofix points on a 991 for my son's seat (and even then it's going to be a squeeze!) - in the UK at least there were only very few later 997s which had isofix.

On track, in my opinion the FL5 is more rewarding than a 991 Carrera (2/4/s). The balance shifts if you start going up the 911 ladder of course.

I've actually been looking at the 991.1 GTS, but the price is too much of a leap for me at the moment.

I think we can all agree this discussion shows at the very least that the FL5 is an amazing car and punches well above it's weight.

(And your assumptions not correct, but happy to move on!)

The 991.1 GTS is an outlier, and IMHO the price in virtually all circumstances is not justified. The only true advantage you get with a GTS is having a "guaranteed" set of options, and if it's a rear-wheel drive car you get the wide body of the all-wheel drive cars. The difference between a well-spec'd S and a GTS is virtually negligible from a practical standpoint, aside from the cost. Which to that point, sure you won't lose money owning a GTS, but the price of entry isn't necessarily justified vs a comparable S... or even the base cars if you want to pick nits. Until you get to the Turbo or GT3, a 911 is a 911. But it's tough to tell some Porsche people that lol. Maybe in the ownership department I'd agree that some options may be considered "must haves" (I just went on about the seats and steering wheel...), but getting out and driving, you don't really notice all that much. The options are more like a "tailored suit"; a 911 caters to a certain demographic that if they're spending that kind of money, they want to be able to customize things, and Porsche does not skimp in that department. But the driving experience remains pretty consistent until you get to the GT/Turbo cars, which really should be considered a different car at that point. DEFINITELY a different price point.

As a side note, the 992 GTS is where things started to get interesting where there were a combination of true upgrades that you just couldn't spec without jumping up to the GTS (also true for the Cayman/Boxster and even Macan of that generation for that matter...). Obviously the 992.2 GTS is another outlier- but I personally think in a bad way. I would take a 992 Carrera T over a .2 GTS any day of the week. But I also don't like the Turbo so I'm one of those (former) Porsche guys.

 

[AZCWTypeR]

Have cylinder bores borescope inspected prior to committing $. Scored Nikasil bores generally means a new block.
A friend got a good deal on a 991, but he wasn't afraid to drop the engine for repairs. In his case, the crankcase breather and oil fill are made of what becomes very brittle and broken plastic.
I had a '73 911T in the '80's. I traded it for a CRX Si so I could autoX on the weekends instead of wrenching on the Porsche. Back then, used 911's weren't overpriced like now.

 

[MrB]

No, I was trolling a bit and for that I apologize. Despite my age I still revert to my dickhead self occasionally. Especially with all the division going on right now, I'm trying to adopt a philosophy of "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all (or post a meme...)", but sometimes I forget the plot. My bad.

My bad for even feeling the need to pick up on it to be honest!

Interesting your thoughts re the GTS being very similar to a well specced Carrera. I think you're right on that, but the trouble is you have to find that well specced Carrera which is difficult (which was a point you rightly alluded to in your first post) and (me being shallow) it won't be called a GTS. I guess it shows Porsche marketing knows what they're doing.

 

[optronix]

Have cylinder bores borescope inspected prior to committing $. Scored Nikasil bores generally means a new block.
A friend got a good deal on a 991, but he wasn't afraid to drop the engine for repairs. In his case, the crankcase breather and oil fill are made of what becomes very brittle and broken plastic.
I had a '73 911T in the '80's. I traded it for a CRX Si so I could autoX on the weekends instead of wrenching on the Porsche. Back then, used 911's weren't overpriced like now.

I guess it's an unreasonable assumption that anything would be "immune" to certain issues... but I was under the impression the 991 cars were at the very least "less susceptible" to bore scoring issues. Am I wrong on that?

My bad for even feeling the need to pick up on it to be honest!

Interesting your thoughts re the GTS being very similar to a well specced Carrera. I think you're right on that, but the trouble is you have to find that well specced Carrera which is difficult (which was a point you rightly alluded to in your first post) and (me being shallow) it won't be called a GTS. I guess it shows Porsche marketing knows what they're doing.

No worries, I have to get better about that. It's a terrible habit from when I thought it was entertaining to get under people's skin. Seeing it as rampant in our culture as it is and how little stuff adds up to contribute to polarization, it's a self-loathing thing for me now, I have to stop. Thanks for being an adult about it! But I won't let myself completely off the hook!

As for the GTS, Porsche ABSOLUTELY knows what they're doing! It's crazy- no other brand I can think of has refined the art of options-speccing to the point where both its highest-end offering (GTS) is arguably as sought after as its lowest offering! Porsche people clamor for "stripper spec" base models with no options too (for "purity")!

And no, I can't refute your claim of "being shallow" either- I myself have been very guilty of "GTS envy" lol. I actually had to have an internal war with myself when I bought my 991.2- it was an S, but had every option that a GTS would (rear-wheel steer, SC, SPASM, PSE, etc.)... but I was still bothered by missing the extra horsepower and widebody! All my Boxsters have been GTS's... which was easy to justify in the 981 and "718.2" generations; the 981 GTS has a very distinct front bumper (and a mysterious, lightly documented "sound symposer" that actually makes a crazy difference for intake noise inside the cabin); and the GTS 4.0 is a paradigm shift for GTS models because it has the GT4/Spyder N/A flat six engine. But the 718 GTS 4-cylinder had negligible differences from a well-spec'd S, just like the early 911s. Yet it fetched at least a $15k premium over nearly identical spec'd S cars (if you could find them, to your point)!!!! I just couldn't resist that interior package... which is pretty much just a few alcantara bits and stitching on the headrests... which in no universe is worth an extra $15k.

At no point should anyone ever listen to me regarding financial decisions lol.

 

[ABPDE5]

I found the steering / shifter feel and gearing in the 9x1(.1) generation Porsches to be a huge letdown. (That doesn't mean they're not awesome cars -- and Numeric is always an option to solve one of those problems.)

While they are accessible, fairly reliable, and look great, I would skip that generation personally. 9x7.2 is the way to go if you want driving nostalgia; 718 / 991.2+ is the way to go if you want performance, quality, and engagement.

 

[Robo7]

I found the steering / shifter feel and gearing in the 9x1(.1) generation Porsches to be a huge letdown. (That doesn't mean they're not awesome cars -- and Numeric is always an option to solve one of those problems.)

While they are accessible, fairly reliable, and look great, I would skip that generation personally. 9x7.2 is the way to go if you want driving nostalgia; 718 / 991.2+ is the way to go if you want performance, quality, and engagement.

My neighbor took me for a rip in his 992.1 GT3T a little while ago and it completely changed my perception of what a car can be. Honestly it ruined me a bit as nothing else can compare.

991.2 GT3 is my ultimate 911. A 997.2 C2S is also high on my list. A 911 will definitely be my next car.

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