Question about indirect TPMS & buying TPMS sensors

[chopsuey34]

Hi, I'll be purchasing new wheels and tires soon, but I'm confused with the indirect TPMS system that the 11th gen Civic has. Tire Rack is charging me extra for TPMS sensors, but if our cars have an indirect system, my question is:

Do I need to buy TPMS sensors when buying aftermarket wheels?

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[Superhatch]

To my knowledge, no. You just need to reset the TPMS once you have the new setup on to tell the system what 'normal' is. Our TPMS uses the same hardware as the ABS system and basically counts rotations of the wheel/tire. A drop/raise in PSI will result in a change of the diameter of the tire and thus set off the alarm.

Some decent info on the system: https://www.tirereview.com/honda-tpms-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[zumbooruk]

I am not sure abut the regular Civic, but the FL5 CTR has indirect TPMS, which as described above, uses the ABS sensors to count tire revolutions

indeed there is no direct tire pressure sensor inside the wheel. there is no sense in installing TPMS transmitters aka sensors since there is no "receiver" to receive and display the pressure...

which I why I purchased an after market pressure and temperature sensors (and remote display) from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Tymate-TM8-Pressure-Monitoring-Windshield/dp/B0DF2LJ4R2

when it was on sale a few weeks ago for $25.99 (currently $33.99).

it is a very simplistic system, no way to set hi/lo pressure or temp warnings, it sets the current pressure as the default, and will alert on rapid loss of air and/or 10% lower/higher than the default.

accuracy is not great, three are +1 psi, and one is +2 psi (compared to a very accurate https://www.amazon.com/JACO-ElitePro-Digital-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B07VV78RZ1)

 

[TypeRD]

I am not sure abut the regular Civic, but the FL5 CTR has indirect TPMS, which as described above, uses the ABS sensors to count tire revolutions

indeed there is no direct tire pressure sensor inside the wheel. there is no sense in installing TPMS transmitters aka sensors since there is no "receiver" to receive and display the pressure...

which I why I purchased an after market pressure and temperature sensors (and remote display) from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Tymate-TM8-Pressure-Monitoring-Windshield/dp/B0DF2LJ4R2

when it was on sale a few weeks ago for $25.99 (currently $33.99).

it is a very simplistic system, no way to set hi/lo pressure or temp warnings, it sets the current pressure as the default, and will alert on rapid loss of air and/or 10% lower/higher than the default.

accuracy is not great, three are +1 psi, and one is +2 psi (compared to a very accurate https://www.amazon.com/JACO-ElitePro-Digital-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B07VV78RZ1)

Even if those sensors were accurate and could do everything you want, there’s no free lunch. Something I really don’t like about these types of sensors is that they depress the valve stem to get the pressure reading. This means that keeping your tires inflated is now reliant on the valve stem cap (to maintain a proper seal) and not the good ‘ol valve itself. It’s not a good trade-off as it is adding an unnecessary failure point. That’s just me, though.

 

[Stanleywinthrop]

No, you absolutely do not need to buy TPMS sensors for any 10th or 11th Gen Civic. The integrals have them.

 

[Superhatch]

I am not sure abut the regular Civic, but the FL5 CTR has indirect TPMS, which as described above, uses the ABS sensors to count tire revolutions

indeed there is no direct tire pressure sensor inside the wheel. there is no sense in installing TPMS transmitters aka sensors since there is no "receiver" to receive and display the pressure...

which I why I purchased an after market pressure and temperature sensors (and remote display) from Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Tymate-TM8-Pressure-Monitoring-Windshield/dp/B0DF2LJ4R2

when it was on sale a few weeks ago for $25.99 (currently $33.99).

it is a very simplistic system, no way to set hi/lo pressure or temp warnings, it sets the current pressure as the default, and will alert on rapid loss of air and/or 10% lower/higher than the default.

accuracy is not great, three are +1 psi, and one is +2 psi (compared to a very accurate https://www.amazon.com/JACO-ElitePro-Digital-Pressure-Gauge/dp/B07VV78RZ1)

That's what the current system does though, it seems a bit redundant. Unless you are looking at tire pressures for track driving?

 

[zumbooruk]

Even if those sensors were accurate and could do everything you want, there’s no free lunch. Something I really don’t like about these types of sensors is that they depress the valve stem to get the pressure reading. This means that keeping your tires inflated is now reliant on the valve stem cap (to maintain a proper seal) and not the good ‘ol valve itself. It’s not a good trade-off as it is adding an unnecessary failure point. That’s just me, though.

That's what the current system does though, it seems a bit redundant. Unless you are looking at tire pressures for track driving?

My 2007 FA5 Si had no TPMS at all. years ago, after not noticing loss of air and shredding the insides of a tire (even with no air at all, the handling felt only slight vague...) I installed a third party TPMS with the internal sensors, exactly because I was weary of the external valve stem sensors leaking

But the CCC (Cheap Chinese Crap) display unit died a few years ago. being cheap myself, I did not want to pay to unmount/remount the tires on the wheels, so I got the TPMS with the external valve stem sensors (which was also much cheaper than the internal sensor system).

I never had any issues with air leaking via the sensors (on the contrary, seemed less than the usual pressure loss over time), but because of the actual pressure display, it is very easy to notice and add air as needed. (I already had a Viair compressor/inflator in the trunk of the FA5, so I just moved it to the FL5, as it is much more robust than the OEM Honda inflator...)

Another advantage of the external sensors is that it is much easier to replace the sensor's battery, no need to unmount/remount the tires...

No track driving, but the current indirect system can only report low pressure via the revolution count differential, and as I understand it, it requires fairly low pressure (esp on such low profile tires) for the indirect system to "notice" that the tire has lost air.

My wife's Jetta also has indirect TPMS, std pressure is 41 PSI, yet the system did not notify her till she was down to 26 PSI, and this is with much higher profile tires, which reduce their diameter quite a bit when losing air.

In addition to my past experience not noticing a flat tire, I am also fairly forgetful when it comes to regularly checking air pressure in my tires, with the "direct" TPMS sensors I can see 1-2 PSI loss immediately, and add air as needed.

Being a geek, it is also nice to have an actual pressure and temp display, even if I'll never drive on track...

 

[TypeRD]

@zumbooruk I totally get it. Direct TPMS is definitely a nice feature and super convenient.

On the Type R, the advantage of NOT having direct TPMS is that it makes changing wheels/tire sets easier (for those who track their cars). Less to fiddle around with. That’s the only reason I can think of as to why Honda didn’t put direct TPMS in these cars…but it’s still an odd choice overall. Seeing the tires warm up (per the pressure increase readings) would be helpful. And from what I understand, some TPMS systems nowadays can store more than 1 set of wheels/tires in system memory.

 

[Superhatch]

My 2016 Honda Fit didn't have direct TPMS either so I think it was generally Honda just being able to double up on a sensor system to accomplish two electronic tasks. Also gives some "luxury" options of psi readings on the Acura brands.

 

[zumbooruk]

My 2016 Honda Fit didn't have direct TPMS either so I think it was generally Honda just being able to double up on a sensor system to accomplish two electronic tasks. Also gives some "luxury" options of psi readings on the Acura brands.

Both TPMS methods, direct and indirect comply with the law/regulation. and it seems that automakers are free to choose whichever method they want. My wife's Jetta is indirect, but her Suburban is direct.

It seems that Honda did cut a few corners on the CTR: no direct TPMS, no auto dimming HomeLink rearview mirror, no electronically adjustable driver's seat (I still have not found a comfortable position in my new CTR, yet the old 07 FA5 Si was perfect with it's manual seat), no spare tire

Honda's excuse is probably weight saving, as the seat motors and the spare tire are heavy, but not the mirror nor the direct TPMS...

I thought about getting the auto dimming HomeLink mirror and wire harness, but so far I did not feel a real need for it, unlike the direct TPMS system.

 

[TypeRD]

Both TPMS methods, direct and indirect comply with the law/regulation. and it seems that automakers are free to choose whichever method they want. My wife's Jetta is indirect, but her Suburban is direct.

It seems that Honda did cut a few corners on the CTR: no direct TPMS, no auto dimming HomeLink rearview mirror, no electronically adjustable driver's seat (I still have not found a comfortable position in my new CTR, yet the old 07 FA5 Si was perfect with it's manual seat), no spare tire

Honda's excuse is probably weight saving, as the seat motors and the spare tire are heavy, but not the mirror nor the direct TPMS...

I thought about getting the auto dimming HomeLink mirror and wire harness, but so far I did not feel a real need for it, unlike the direct TPMS system.

As stated by someone else, I’m pretty positive most of these omissions were strategic for the North American market. They help keep the price lower, while we also have the choice of the ITS (which is obviously more expensive and loaded with creature comforts).

Note that CTRs in other regions are better equipped (and more expensive) than what we get…but those other regions don’t have the ITS, which is only available in North America.

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