Is anyone doing anything extra for the security system?

Bpebler

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Agreed šŸ‘ Insurance discount is a plus. I’m going to reach out to Ravelco and ask if there are any GA distributors bc website doesn’t show any.

Post pics if/when you get it installed! I’m hoping no drilling into the dash is involved, I saw some had a prong sticking out just below.
Will do! I would prefer no drilling also, but it may be required in order to not remove the female adapter. Or at least give different color options.
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1971Camaro

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This thread really takes me back. I haven't thought about vehicle alarm/security systems in many years. I had a Viper 791XV on my 05 RSX Type S and loved it.

@1971Camaro What did you land on?
So far, i have been using the most cost-effective security device i have -- altho not intentionally -- the car's been spending most of its time secure in a closed garage. :cool::rolleyes:

Between the bouts of snow...the day of several tornado warnings... yesterday's thunderstorms and HAIL... and today's high-wind alert... my big plan has been to monitor the discussions on here and think about my options. lol (thankfully, i am right now working from home)

I like the dashcam, but i would really like to do something to deter theft, so the Revelco is sounding good. Thank you all for sharing so much great info!!

I also have another option i have wanted to explore, but needed to visit my dealer. I realize a lot of you have upper-end cars in addition to this hot hatch, but i have never stepped foot into a luxury [performance] auto dealership before. It was weird to find a reasonable price on a CTR there, but they were excellent (maybe they took pity on me?), and now i have the advantage of having bought from a dealership campus that includes Porches, Mercedes, Acuras, etc. They're all right together with their service people there in the complex (and i'm a legit customer). So, I am thinking they might have a bunch of experience with various security devices, and if i talk to the service departments, they may have some good information. (Then again... their buyers may not need/care for extra security so they may know nothing?)

But, i am going out either tomorrow or Friday to pay a visit and see what i can learn. I will surely report back!
 

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So far, i have been using the most cost-effective security device i have -- altho not intentionally -- the car's been spending most of its time secure in a closed garage. :cool::rolleyes:
Ultimately you already have one of the most effective deterrents from the theft of the car. It's a manual. 80-90% of people don't even know how to start a car with a stick much less drive it away. Everything else is just a bonus. Since to disable the car it's as simple as pulling the fuel pump, ignition system or starter fuse vs anything overly complicated. Just isn't something I'd want to do all the time.
 
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1971Camaro

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Ultimately you already have one of the most effective deterrents from the theft of the car. It's a manual. 80-90% of people don't even know how to start a car with a stick much less drive it away. Everything else is just a bonus. Since to disable the car it's as simple as pulling the fuel pump, ignition system or starter fuse vs anything overly complicated. Just isn't something I'd want to do all the time.
You speak truth, but i started the conversation with this assumption...
" Yes, it's a manual trans... but, some people do know how to drive a stick, altho, i saw that external theft is considered more likely than taking the whole car?"
 

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You speak truth, but i started the conversation with this assumption...
" Yes, it's a manual trans... but, some people do know how to drive a stick, altho, i saw that external theft is considered more likely than taking the whole car?"
External theft is more likely than taking the whole car - true. So your wheels, emblems, wing, bodykit lips are the most likely theft targets. Security screws, wheel locks, filling in hex screws with glue (not hard to remove, just time consuming with a pick) are most of the solutions to that. None of the solutions provided really prevents anything about passenger area access and visible item theft via repeater or break-in loose item theft. Even if you do get an internal dashcam, unlikely anything will come of it, just an average person in a hoodie and facemask rummaging through your car if they don't tear it out while going through the car. Best defense to that is don't leave anything valuable visible. Anything 3rd party that hooks into your car's harness is always an extra liability Honda will never take responsibility for which is why most alarm companies don't touch the running electronics and just do starter cut relay but it can be pop started. It just depends on how far you want to take it and what kind of inconvenience you're willing to deal with as there's dozens of ways to disable a car within a minute.

As more modern cars get, vulnerabilities get expanded.

https://jalopnik.com/car-thieves-hack-can-bus-headlight-wire-bluetooth-1850307214
 
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1971Camaro

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Okay. finally got a chance to talk to service people.

As to Prevention...
Honda service felt it was a matter of the factory alarm doing the job, or that nothing would do it, as he felt the current system was pretty good, and since taking the whole car wasn't as likely -- esp if the alarm went off. Not sure if i agreed that the alarm would be a deterrent, but that was his experience. and he added some basics that everyone seems to mention...
yes, i already have wheel locks for the wheels. No, i don't PLAN on leaving the key fob in the car or parking it all alone somewhere.

As to getting the car back quickly if stolen...
Mentioned the GPS tracking service
I don't know if i am willing to pay for the service... i will have to think about it.

He wasn't a fan of dash cam for THIS purpose because it was too unreliable -- and that it may not even help ID the thief.

I went on to talk to the service depts at Porsche, BMW, Cadillac, and Mercedes.

They gave me 2 pieces of advice...
1) get something that includes a motion sensor that would be sensitive to tilting the car, as that would be part of most attempts to remove parts.
2) If the car was insured. to check policy to make sure the replacement value would cover a car that didn't depreciate like a normal car.

So, i then talked to my insurance agent, and they didn't have anything to add. what they said about coverage is that they use Kelley BB along with other market indicators to determine current value. So, anyone know if that source is usually accurate for cars like this -- which retain value even after putting on mileage?
 

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Okay. finally got a chance to talk to service people.

As to Prevention...
Honda service felt it was a matter of the factory alarm doing the job, or that nothing would do it, as he felt the current system was pretty good, and since taking the whole car wasn't as likely -- esp if the alarm went off. Not sure if i agreed that the alarm would be a deterrent, but that was his experience. and he added some basics that everyone seems to mention...
yes, i already have wheel locks for the wheels. No, i don't PLAN on leaving the key fob in the car or parking it all alone somewhere.

As to getting the car back quickly if stolen...
Mentioned the GPS tracking service
I don't know if i am willing to pay for the service... i will have to think about it.

He wasn't a fan of dash cam for THIS purpose because it was too unreliable -- and that it may not even help ID the thief.

I went on to talk to the service depts at Porsche, BMW, Cadillac, and Mercedes.

They gave me 2 pieces of advice...
1) get something that includes a motion sensor that would be sensitive to tilting the car, as that would be part of most attempts to remove parts.
2) If the car was insured. to check policy to make sure the replacement value would cover a car that didn't depreciate like a normal car.

So, i then talked to my insurance agent, and they didn't have anything to add. what they said about coverage is that they use Kelley BB along with other market indicators to determine current value. So, anyone know if that source is usually accurate for cars like this -- which retain value even after putting on mileage?
You're not going to get much positive feedback for systems the dealer themselves don't install from the dealer. Quick notes:

Factory Alarm: Look at the videos on YT about how thieves defeat factory alarms to drive off with the car. The factory alarm isn't deterring whole car theft and actually benefits to those with knowledge - it only deters smash and grab. As I mentioned before, the factory security system is what allows for amplifier RFID door open/start and key cloning.

GPS service - Waste of money today. Tape an Apple airtag or two somewhere under the dash/chassis and hide it well.

Tilt - All aftermarket alarms come with piezoelectric sensors which detect impact and tilt. Factory doesn't. The only way tilt helps though is wheels or cat converter.

Insurance - insure the car at a value you're unwilling to lose, instead you're paying the monthly premium.

In the end - you can't stop a determined thief. You can only make it as difficult as you're willing to deal with every time you start the car.
 
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1971Camaro

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You're not going to get much positive feedback for systems the dealer themselves don't install from the dealer. Quick notes:

Factory Alarm: Look at the videos on YT about how thieves defeat factory alarms to drive off with the car. The factory alarm isn't deterring whole car theft and actually benefits to those with knowledge - it only deters smash and grab. As I mentioned before, the factory security system is what allows for amplifier RFID door open/start and key cloning.

GPS service - Waste of money today. Tape an Apple airtag or two somewhere under the dash/chassis and hide it well.

Tilt - All aftermarket alarms come with piezoelectric sensors which detect impact and tilt. Factory doesn't. The only way tilt helps though is wheels or cat converter.

Insurance - insure the car at a value you're unwilling to lose, instead you're paying the monthly premium.

In the end - you can't stop a determined thief. You can only make it as difficult as you're willing to deal with every time you start the car.

yes, i'm aware that a determined (or educated/skilled) thief can steal almost anything. however, there tend to be more common kinds of theft -- which is what i am trying to guard against -- not the sophisticated kind, since i don't live in an upper-class neighborhood.

re RFID... I did ask about that... was implied when i reported that the Honda guy said he felt their "current system" worked well. they weren't aware of any issues lately -- unlike previously, when it was rampant.

re GPS... I was thinking about the TILE product, as i don't have apple. Any thoughts on an android-compatible device or other generic device??

re TILT... yes, that is what i had said earlier how external stuff (like wheels and catalytic converter) are some of the main parts being targeted... so something that detects tilt would be quite handy for that... plus, the electronics for tilt are nowhere near as complex as a full-security system.

re: INSURANCE... Sorry, but my agent *insisted* that there was no need for additional insurance -- based on their feeling that the KBB value was typically accurate. I pushed back, but i didn't want to argue too hard because years ago, when i insisted i should be increasing my apartment insurance, the agent at the time got suspicious that i was trying to increase coverage unnecessarily with the intent to make a claim (yes, i dropped him quickly). However, if you guys recommend that it's imperative to get extra insurance, i will try again.

Anyone here know how accurate KBB would be regarding cars that hold their value once they leave the lot???
 

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re RFID... I did ask about that... was implied when i reported that the Honda guy said he felt their "current system" worked well. they weren't aware of any issues lately -- unlike previously, when it was rampant.
This is the dealer being the dealer. There's obviously no problem with any product they sell and no known vulnerabilities.

Evidence to the contrary -




If you need to see just how easy it is and why you SHOULD disable the proximity unlock on your doors at a minimum and place your keys in a signal disruption device once in your home. Make it so you must hit the unlock signal to unlock the doors. This is the systems that are in vehicles today. There's a more detailed in a video I posted earlier but if you need just to see how easy it is for a prepared thief.


re GPS... I was thinking about the TILE product, as i don't have apple. Any thoughts on an android-compatible device or other generic device??
All similar tech but are reliant upon the support. Looking quickly at Tile it appears it has no GPS data and simply a beacon if you get within it's range of your single device. Limited usefulness without multiple devices able to ping it. Samsung's one appears to be like an AirTag with any Galaxy device able to ping it but is limited to the user network of Samsung phones just like Airtags are limited by Apple devices out in the wild. If you don't want to rely upon that you can buy lojack or similar or some 3rd party device like an OnStar or something as a subscription. Value is entirely up to the user.

re TILT... yes, that is what i had said earlier how external stuff (like wheels and catalytic converter) are some of the main parts being targeted... so something that detects tilt would be quite handy for that... plus, the electronics for tilt are nowhere near as complex as a full-security system.
Tilt sensors are going to be wired into a full secondary security system unless Honda has some way of integrating another trigger device. Most factory alarms only have window breakage sensors and physical door unlock. 3rd party like Viper, Compustar or whatever which give a plethora of options including GPS and always on connectivity.

re: INSURANCE...
Anyone here know how accurate KBB would be regarding cars that hold their value once they leave the lot???
KBB is owned by Cox Automotive which owns Manheim or one of the largest auto auction companies around. So they'll be in line for the NATIONAL auction value, might not be your local private market values... but usually you'd be arguing for current local replacement value. If you think you need GAP insurance, it's your choice to get it or not.


Personally I think you're overthinking this. In part because CTR parts, if the whole car gets stolen, aren't common enough to sell easily and again - it's a manual. It comes down to how much hassle you want to put into every time you start your car and how much you want to spend. Physical devices that lock the pedals in position, electrical cuts that sever the line to the starter or parking brake over a simple switch, full blown alarm and secondary wiring systems systems, GPS/onStar equivs, or simply getting a car cover with a security leash or motorcycle lock. In the end it's up to you what makes you feel safe as that's really what you're after as unstealable isn't possible. Good luck.
 
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This is the dealer being the dealer. There's obviously no problem with any product they sell and no known vulnerabilities.

Evidence to the contrary -


If you need to see just how easy it is and why you SHOULD disable the proximity unlock on your doors at a minimum and place your keys in a signal disruption device once in your home. Make it so you must hit the unlock signal to unlock the doors. This is the systems that are in vehicles today. There's a more detailed in a video I posted earlier but if you need just to see how easy it is for a prepared thief.



All similar tech but are reliant upon the support. Looking quickly at Tile it appears it has no GPS data and simply a beacon if you get within it's range of your single device. Limited usefulness without multiple devices able to ping it. Samsung's one appears to be like an AirTag with any Galaxy device able to ping it but is limited to the user network of Samsung phones just like Airtags are limited by Apple devices out in the wild. If you don't want to rely upon that you can buy lojack or similar or some 3rd party device like an OnStar or something as a subscription. Value is entirely up to the user.


Tilt sensors are going to be wired into a full secondary security system unless Honda has some way of integrating another trigger device. Most factory alarms only have window breakage sensors and physical door unlock. 3rd party like Viper, Compustar or whatever which give a plethora of options including GPS and always on connectivity.


KBB is owned by Cox Automotive which owns Manheim or one of the largest auto auction companies around. So they'll be in line for the NATIONAL auction value, might not be your local private market values... but usually you'd be arguing for current local replacement value. If you think you need GAP insurance, it's your choice to get it or not.


Personally I think you're overthinking this. In part because CTR parts, if the whole car gets stolen, aren't common enough to sell easily and again - it's a manual. It comes down to how much hassle you want to put into every time you start your car and how much you want to spend. Physical devices that lock the pedals in position, electrical cuts that sever the line to the starter or parking brake over a simple switch, full blown alarm and secondary wiring systems systems, GPS/onStar equivs, or simply getting a car cover with a security leash or motorcycle lock. In the end it's up to you what makes you feel safe as that's really what you're after as unstealable isn't possible. Good luck.

you made my whole point... those were much more sophisticated than what we would see in the areas where i have concern. the thefts used to be hubcaps and audio systems... now they are wheels and catalytic converters.

as to the "dealer"... i purposely talked only to the service techs there... never talked to sales or management. they told me it's much better because with the current system, there's a "handshake" that needs to happen between the car and key fob now... you can't just send the signal and have the car open... there needs to be a confirmation. I don't know how old the original version of that video is... or if the model has the newer system.

also, why would i need gap insurance??? N/A. i am only worried about someone doing damage to the car for which the insurance company may not cover the full MARKET value of a car that would now be considered a 'used' vehicle.

Thank you for all that info!! Yes, I may be overthinking... but, there are a bunch of stories here and everywhere from people who have had cars stolen... it's not an unreasonable concern.
 


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I think we are safe for now with the Kia Boi's preoccupied.
 

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you made my whole point... those were much more sophisticated than what we would see in the areas where i have concern. the thefts used to be hubcaps and audio systems... now they are wheels and catalytic converters.

as to the "dealer"... i purposely talked only to the service techs there... never talked to sales or management. they told me it's much better because with the current system, there's a "handshake" that needs to happen between the car and key fob now... you can't just send the signal and have the car open... there needs to be a confirmation. I don't know how old the original version of that video is... or if the model has the newer system.
That's a heck of a lot of assumptions you have there, most of them in your favor. Not usually a good recipe for security decisions. These videos are from modern systems, you can look up newer videos of the newest cars if you want. The security system isn't anywhere near as complicated as you're thinking - it's too high of a cost. You're saying you believe Toyota service techs believe and will tell owners of Toyotas that their cars are vulnerable to be stolen through the Can Bus system in the headlight. You're saying you believe Kia/Hyundai service techs tell their customers their cars are vulnerable to be stolen before the Federally mandated recall on their ignition lockout system occurred. If that's how you process how car's work, blindly believing what the service tech tells you, there's a lot of problems to be experienced in the future unfortunately as it seems you have to experience them in order to learn anything.

also, why would i need gap insurance??? N/A. i am only worried about someone doing damage to the car for which the insurance company may not cover the full MARKET value of a car that would now be considered a 'used' vehicle.
GAP covers what your primary insurance isn't going to cover. AKA the part you're worried about your primary insurance not paying the market value and they very well might not. This is especially something you want to consider if you're getting a loan and you're not making a down payment of 20% right off the bat as the second you touch the car you're already underwater. So you might be stuck with the market difference (KBB doesn't take into account premium above MSRP - guarantee you that) plus your deductible plus how much you were underwater.

You have your options and information, just up to you what you want to do with it.
 
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From what I understand the primary source of modern attacks are

1) Old codes: Honda, supposedly, only had a few base codes when they first went to the fob system. So if one found or simply copied a signal you had something like a 1 in 8 chance of being able to access the car. Honda never acknowledged the problem publicly so how deep the problem was wasn't known nor how much the problem has been addressed.

2) Signal boosting/relay: Getting a large antenna and attaching it to the laptop to pick up weaker signals which then repeats them to the car. So if your keyfob is inside but next to the front door they can pick up the signal then stand next to the car w/ the laptop repeater which gives access to the car.

3) Key Reprogramming: Getting access to your OBD port and having a blank key. In some cars it's a fairly easy process to reprogram a new key fob to your car.

Ex of both 2 & 3:

4) App backdoors, much less common but for cars that allow phone remote start and other phone access vulnerabilities. Ex:

.
1 will allow you to open the door but not start the car

2 is dangerous and can result in car getting stolen, don’t hang your key near the front door

3 I haven’t seen this happen on Honda’s. It’s a big problem with Toyota as there are live canbus wires going to the fog light that can program new keys. IIRC to program a new Honda key you need a valid programmed key on hand in addition to the new key

4 Cant start the FK8/FL5 through app, no issue there
 

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I don’t trust KBB for car values. It is OK as a general place to start, but keep in mind that the numbers it generates are based on averages and algorithms and doesn’t necessarily account for what the actual market value is compared to similar cars that are for sale or sold recently. I think KBB is advantageous to dealerships looking to buy used cars as cheap as possible. Had I sold my ā€˜09 Si last fall for just KBB, I’d have lost $5k!!! I did my research, found the true value of it, and sold it privately. So if your FL5 gets stolen, you may have to prepare to fight the insurance agency and provide proof of true market value.

I’m wondering if one can get classic/collectible car insurance for the FL5 or does this type of insurance only covers cars that are 20+ years old?šŸ¤”
 
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I don’t trust KBB for car values. It is OK as a general place to start, but keep in mind that the numbers it generates are based on averages and algorithms and doesn’t necessarily account for what the actual market value is compared to similar cars that are for sale or sold recently. I think KBB is advantageous to dealerships looking to buy used cars as cheap as possible. Had I sold my ā€˜09 Si last fall for just KBB, I’d have lost $5k!!! I did my research, found the true value of it, and sold it privately. So if your FL5 gets stolen, you may have to prepare to fight the insurance agency and provide proof of true market value.

I’m wondering if one can get classic/collectible car insurance for the FL5 or does this type of insurance only covers cars that are 20+ years old?šŸ¤”
I agree on the KBB car values. A new car replacement rider is a good hedge against that risk.
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