Catastrophic Engine Failure

[optronix]

i wonder if someone money shifted it before you took possession while on a test drive or one of the lot porters hooned it.

but this is why warranty's exist. manufacturing isn't perfect.

i'm interested to see what caused the failure.

Other than what was already provided?

After a few days they had diagnosed the problem as a valve keeper that had somehow gotten loose in the engine which had thrown off the timing and ended up blowing up the engine.

Any more depth than that is for Big Honda, if they care to find out.

Also worth mentioning, I've gone down the lemon law path in the past. It's not a fulfilling route to resolution, but it is worth pursuing regardless. I wouldn't expect a replacement car, but absolutely would expect a check for diminished value. In my case it was a Range Rover Evoque, utter piece of shit. Needed a new transfer case after ~5k miles and was in the dealer for 48 consecutive days. They did NOT take the car back, but I got a check for ~$2500, AFTER consulting a law firm that specializes in lemon laws. I'm in Maryland, which appears to have similar laws to Virginia.

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[EJHonda]

Interesting as my dealer (Keeler Honda, Latham NY) told me when I asked that Honda specifies no break-in routine for this car.

 

[TypeRD]

Interesting as my dealer (Keeler Honda, Latham NY) told me when I asked that Honda specifies no break-in routine for this car.

Your dealer is incorrect. Break-in is 1000 kms (~620 mi).

 

[Clark_Kent]

@NardoGrey Sorry to hear about your troubles this early into ownership. I appreciate your willingness to share your experience on this. I realize many times these types of instances are kept off of forums. As a few have mentioned, I don't think you're getting a new car out of this. That's a reasonable emotional reaction, but it's not realistic. As I see it, a set of plausible resolutions are as follows: 1) Pursue the Lemon Law avenue and maybe get a buyback; 2) work with the dealership, get the engine repaired or replaced and move on; 3) Get the engine repaired or replaced and sell it/trade it in.

A note on Options 1 and 2. If you go in that direction, you have no car and these cars still are not super easy to pick up at a fair price. If you go with option 2, push for AHMC to compensate you for your troubles. An extended warranty is table stakes as far as I'm concerned. Perhaps they can throw in some accessories as well. Anyhow, just a few things to consider. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.

 

[EJHonda]

Your dealer is incorrect. Break-in is 1000 kms (~620 mi).

Thanks. I found it eventually in the owners manual:
"During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation,
avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so
as not to damage the engine or powertrain."

My sales guy was telling me "Full send right out the door - that's no problem on these cars." and that there were a few of the guys at the dealership who spend time at track days, so they were on top of it.

That's a bummer as I won't get to that mileage before my first track day for this car scheduled at the end of this month.

 

[Clark_Kent]

Thanks. I found it eventually in the owners manual:
"During the first 600 miles (1,000 km) of operation,
avoid sudden acceleration or full throttle operation so
as not to damage the engine or powertrain."

My sales guy was telling me "Full send right out the door - that's no problem on these cars." and that there were a few of the guys at the dealership who spend time at track days, so they were on top of it.

That's a bummer as I won't get to that mileage before my first track day for this car scheduled at the end of this month.

BLUF: The car won't fall apart if you don't follow the manufacturer's recommendation(s).

You can choose to follow it or not. It's the same for the oil weight and interval recommendation in the Owner's Manual. Some track the car or strap it to the dyno from the whistle and others take it easy. Some follow the Maintenance Minder for oil change intervals and others are changing their oil to align with the Jiffy Lube marketing campaign from the 70s.

 

[TypeRD]

BLUF: The car won't fall apart if you don't follow the manufacturer's recommendation(s).

You can choose to follow it or not. It's the same for the oil weight and interval recommendation in the Owner's Manual. Some track the car or strap it to the dyno from the whistle and others take it easy. Some follow the maintenance minder for oil change intervals and others are changing their oil to align with the Jiffy Lube marketing campaign from the 70s.

Not sure I’d necessarily go straight to the track from the dealership lot, but otherwise agree that break-in is more of a recommendation than anything. Given that the recommended break-in is just 600 mi versus the old/typical 3000 mi recommendation says a lot.

With all that said, it’d be better to have a major failure while following the break-in recommendation, versus a major failure at the track while driving 100+ mph within the first 600 miles. I’m willing to bet the break-in period/procedure is more of an initial drivetrain integrity “test” than an actual break-in.

 

[TurboZed-R]

I really hate to say it but asking for a new vehicle because of an engine failure is just not within reason. There is a power train warranty for a reason, and that is to replace the powertrain. An engine failure is extremely rare, but somebody will inevitably have one. They will drop a new crate motor (the same every single FK5 has) right into it. Probably even give you an extended lifetime powertrain warranty to top it off due to the rarity of a Honda failing.

 

[TypeRD]

@TurboZed-R It may be unrealistic to expect to get a new car out of this, but I think it is very wise to ask for anything/ everything possible. At minimum it is part of the negotiation process. The point you’re missing is that the OP will need to figure out what to do with his devalued car and should definitely use this as leverage to come to an agreeable solution with Honda Corp. He should definitely not be under water for any of this. That’s what Lemon Laws are for. This is far beyond a normal warranty repair situation.

 

[007]

I really hate to say it but asking for a new vehicle because of an engine failure is just not within reason. There is a power train warranty for a reason, and that is to replace the powertrain. An engine failure is extremely rare, but somebody will inevitably have one. They will drop a new crate motor (the same every single FK5 has) right into it. Probably even give you an extended lifetime powertrain warranty to top it off due to the rarity of a Honda failing.

My main concern with replacing the engine is that the car will never be the same again. Even if the car seems to work perfectly afterward (which is a big "if"), I would never fully trust a dealership to restore it to its original factory condition. Consider how many cars end up with minor damages, both inside and out, from something as simple as a seat recall. An engine replacement, being far more complex, is likely to cause even more incidental damage.

 

[Tickle]

This is wild....

 

[optronix]

My main concern with replacing the engine is that the car will never be the same again. Even if the car seems to work perfectly afterward (which is a big "if"), I would never fully trust a dealership to restore it to its original factory condition. Consider how many cars end up with minor damages, both inside and out, from something as simple as a seat recall. An engine replacement, being far more complex, is likely to cause even more incidental damage.

This whole line of thinking is complete nonsense.

Why bother with a powertrain warranty at all then? Engine goes, welp, that's the end of it. Car's gotta go!

Seriously, wtf.

I get that it's frustrating that this happens to a brand new car but thems the breaks. I'm just glad that this universal "just get a new one" mentality has since been outweighed by the pragmatic folks who are bringing this thread back to reality.

edit- I think this is actually a very useful thread. Most folks probably have this theory, that if anything "bad" happens the lemon law will just jump to your defense and make everything right. That's just simply not the case, at least in the vast majority of these admittedly extremely rare circumstances. I think we all could use some education on this, and I hope the OP continues to update us on how this all works out.

 

[PointByPatrol]

It's really easy to have an emotional response to this sort of thing. When I was much younger I used to name my cars, and that sort of silly thing, and anytime something went wrong I took it really hard.....which was a stupid way of thinking about it. I've worked now in a repair facility for the past 12 years, and I watch customers go through the emotional roller coaster when what seems like a large repair needs to be completed, and it's hard for me to get back into that mindset sometimes.

Cars are simply a collection of parts, which make up an assembly. They wouldn't have bolts or adjustments if they weren't meant to be worked on, taken apart, and put back together.

An engine assembly seems pretty major, but it really isn't anymore. Cars have become incredibly modular. Honda will supply the dealer with a long block. The engine and transmission assembly will be removed from the bottom of the car, which is the same way it went in. They'll split the two assemblies, swap in the new long block, bolt on the accessories, and back in she goes!

I know you're worried about this, so once the work is completed you should inspect their work, and if you see anything that seems off, then let the dealer know so that they can address the issue for you.

Best of luck!

 

[Jester04]

It's really easy to have an emotional response to this sort of thing. When I was much younger I used to name my cars, and that sort of silly thing, and anytime something went wrong I took it really hard.....which was a stupid way of thinking about it. I've worked now in a repair facility for the past 12 years, and I watch customers go through the emotional roller coaster when what seems like a large repair needs to be completed, and it's hard for me to get back into that mindset sometimes.

Cars are simply a collection of parts, which make up an assembly. They wouldn't have bolts or adjustments if they weren't meant to be worked on, taken apart, and put back together.

An engine assembly seems pretty major, but it really isn't anymore. Cars have become incredibly modular. Honda will supply the dealer with a long block. The engine and transmission assembly will be removed from the bottom of the car, which is the same way it went in. They'll split the two assemblies, swap in the new long block, bolt on the accessories, and back in she goes!

I know you're worried about this, so once the work is completed you should inspect their work, and if you see anything that seems off, then let the dealer know so that they can address the issue for you.

Best of luck!

My trauma with dealerships and warranty work stems from when I used to work in one. With the experience I had with some warranty work and they broke a bunch of clips and missing parts. The techs don’t want to do warranty work since it does not pay well.

 

[PointByPatrol]

My trauma with dealerships and warranty work stems from when I used to work in one. With the experience I had with some warranty work and they broke a bunch of clips and missing parts. The techs don’t want to do warranty work since it does not pay well.

I think Covid was probably one of the best things that happened to technicians. Dealerships had to fight to keep talent. Technicians are paid more now than they ever were. Yes, warranty times suck, but increased compensation has helped to curb some of the warranty time grumblings. I had to dole out some SERIOUS raises during that time period. All that being said, I'd much rather replace an engine than a wiring harness!

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