Any of you “downgrading” to get into an FL5?

[Boostlag]

Being in Canada, you can only own a RWD as a summer car. I was really interested in getting the 2023 BMW M2 as a summer only car, and drive my 2.5k+kms Accord during the winter, but I expect it to cost an arm and a leg. Thinking realistically, the new CTR would be a great DD that can be driven all year round without any issues, and honestly, its much more fun to drive a slow car fast than to drive a fast car slow. And the CTR is only marginally slower than the 2019 M2 competition.
TLDR: Definitely not a downgrade, more fun to drive and a better connection with a car that can be driven all year round.

Not saying Civic isn't fun but there is a whole different feel that comes from driving a lightweight rwd car with 50/50 weight distribution. Type R is quick but its compromised. I'd rather daily a miata or a gr86 but life requires a big car with a huge trunk.

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[Stick_shifter96]

Not saying Civic isn't fun but there is a whole different feel that comes from driving a lightweight rwd car with 50/50 weight distribution. Type R is quick but its compromised. I'd rather daily a miata or a gr86 but life requires a big car with a huge trunk.

I agree with you on that 100%. I definitely have that kind of a car on my wishlist as my next next car.

 

[007]

Not saying Civic isn't fun but there is a whole different feel that comes from driving a lightweight rwd car with 50/50 weight distribution. Type R is quick but its compromised. I'd rather daily a miata or a gr86 but life requires a big car with a huge trunk.

There are tradeoffs, for sure, but the narrative that a FWD car can’t feel every bit as fun, nimble, and capable as RWD is often exaggerated.

The chassis of a 2000 Integra Type R was incredibly well sorted; it felt more responsive and more balanced than the chassis on the s2k ever did. As a result, the ITR felt more composed and predictable in the corners despite being a FWD with 60/40 wd. Arguably the best FWD ever built from a purist POV. I don’t think there’s a RWD to this day that feels quite like it.

I agree that, generally, FWD sucks. But it’s not impossible to make it as fun and capable as the best RWD.

 

[Toprarnen]

The chassis of a 2000 Integra Type R was incredibly well sorted; it felt more responsive and more balanced than the chassis on the s2k ever did. As a result, the ITR felt more composed and predictable in the corners despite being a FWD with 60/40 wd. Arguably the best FWD ever built from a purist POV. I don’t think there’s a RWD to this day that feels quite like it.

And yours for the low, low, price of $50k

 

[Boostlag]

There are tradeoffs, for sure, but the narrative that a FWD car can’t feel every bit as fun, nimble, and capable as RWD is often exaggerated.

The chassis of a 2000 Integra Type R was incredibly well sorted; it felt more responsive and more balanced than the chassis on the s2k ever did. As a result, the ITR felt more composed and predictable in the corners despite being a FWD with 60/40 wd. Arguably the best FWD ever built from a purist POV. I don’t think there’s a RWD to this day that feels quite like it.

I agree that, generally, FWD sucks. But it’s not impossible to make it as fun and capable as the best RWD.

I was modifying Hondas since the mid 90's... I've owned multiple, turbo'd EM that made 280whp and a B18C swapped EJ and even a EF hatch. They are fun and can be quick but just don't have the balance like a miata where the car pivots right in the driver seat. Best raw feeling FWD has to be a Mazdaspeed Protege, nimble as hell and pretty hard core, it had the kinda torquesteer that made you run off the road but it was all part of the charm.

 

[007]

And yours for the low, low, price of $50k

I totally still plan on buying one if finances work out. It was the most “under the radar” car for decades. I’ll never forget the day I drove it. Truly special is an understatement. I’d take it over S2K CR.

 

[Toprarnen]

I totally still plan on buying one if finances work out. It was the most “under the radar” car for decades. I’ll never forget the day I drove it. Truly special is an understatement. I’d take it over S2K CR.

Bringatrailer saw a few at $27-35k, didn't check mileage or anything like that. The car I'd really want from that era would be an R34, but at the going rate of $100k+/pop, no thanks... I'll take a new Porsche instead

 

[007]

Bringatrailer saw a few at $27-35k, didn't check mileage or anything like that. The car I'd really want from that era would be an R34, but at the going rate of $100k+/pop, no thanks... I'll take a new Porsche instead

Same. I’d take a GT4 with a manual over an R34.

 

[SwiftTone]

Not saying Civic isn't fun but there is a whole different feel that comes from driving a lightweight rwd car with 50/50 weight distribution. Type R is quick but its compromised. I'd rather daily a miata or a gr86 but life requires a big car with a huge trunk.

Well 50/50 is also compromised. the ideal weight distributionfor handling is somewhere close to 40/60

 

[Tickle]

Well 50/50 is also compromised. the ideal weight distributionfor handling is somewhere close to 40/60

For a fun to drive car on the street I'll take 50/50 with the weight being as close to center as possible and low.

Look no further than the GT4 RS. Reviews have called it the the best modern Porsche and the best Porsche ever and the best car ever.

 

[007]

For a fun to drive car on the street I'll take 50/50 with the weight being as close to center as possible and low.

Look no further than the GT4 RS. Reviews have called it the the best modern Porsche and the best Porsche ever and the best car ever.

My problem with the GT4 RS is no manual option. Even if it is the “best” car ever, it lacks what to me is the number one form of engagement: three pedals.

The fact that it’s unattainable for 99.99% of people due to scarcity, price, and markup just bothers me. The automotive world is nuts. Too many compromises nowadays.

Nothing is simple anymore. In the Porsche and BMW world, you have to pay more to get less. They’ll strip away creature comforts only if they can call it a 911R and charge you extra for it.

I may just “downgrade” my future garage plans to a GR Yaris and S2000. Both are fun, simple, and special enough. Maybe add a CTR for practicality and space and call it quits with three of the best drives.

 

[Tickle]

My problem with the GT4 RS is no manual option. Even if it is the “best” car ever, it lacks what to me is the number one form of engagement: three pedals.

The fact that it’s unattainable for 99.99% of people due to scarcity, price, and markup just bothers me. The automotive world is nuts. Too many compromises nowadays.

Nothing is simple anymore. In the Porsche and BMW world, you have to pay more to get less. They’ll strip away creature comforts only if they can call it a 911R and charge you extra for it.

I may just “downgrade” my future garage plans to a GR Yaris and S2000. Both are fun, simple, and special enough. Maybe add a CTR for practicality and space and call it quits with three of the best drives.

All very excellent points.

I think in world where the quickest 0-60 and fastest Nring time helps marketing departments. I enjoy the drive.

It's why the S2000 has always amazed me. I would be rambling if I continued on.

 

[Boostlag]

My problem with the GT4 RS is no manual option. Even if it is the “best” car ever, it lacks what to me is the number one form of engagement: three pedals.

The fact that it’s unattainable for 99.99% of people due to scarcity, price, and markup just bothers me. The automotive world is nuts. Too many compromises nowadays.

Nothing is simple anymore. In the Porsche and BMW world, you have to pay more to get less. They’ll strip away creature comforts only if they can call it a 911R and charge you extra for it.

I may just “downgrade” my future garage plans to a GR Yaris and S2000. Both are fun, simple, and special enough. Maybe add a CTR for practicality and space and call it quits with three of the best drives.

When manufacturers are chasing numbers and laptimes, manuals are dead. Especially when cars are getting so ridiculously fast, humans cant shift and focus and drive imo.

 

[007]

for about 100k, I'd take a first gen v10 R8 with a gated manual and



When manufacturers are chasing numbers and laptimes, manuals are dead. Especially when cars are getting so ridiculously fast, humans cant shift and focus and drive imo.

That’s why I applaud BMW for doing what nobody else does… they chase lap times *AND* still offer manuals.

Take the G80 M3, for example. They catered to both crowds: those who care most about lap numbers opt for the more expensive XDrive or Competition models, while those who care about engagement opt for the cheaper “base” version with a manual that is significantly slower. All three variants are selling very well if the 1 year wait times are anything to go by.

 

[Boostlag]

Oddly US is the only market the manual is offered on the m3, gt3 and golf r. Long as there is a market demand, they keep making it.

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